December 9, 2019 - 11:37am
Open Crum subject
Hi guys!
I've struggling to achieve a more lighter and more even crumb. I get and open crumb in the middle but around that the crumble is more dense and without any air bubbles. Can't reach my goal's crumb no matter how I chance my process, I think I need some advice. This one is:
100 % strong wheat flour
78% hydration
30% levain
2% salt
4h room temperature (between 18 and 21°), 3 coil folds 45' minutes apart, then pre shape and shape. 18h at 8°.
I think I have some issues with the tension and shaping. Do you have some advice? Thank you very much :)
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Looks under fermented to me, which is odd considering the nice timing/temperatures you provided.
Can you observe significant growth in volume during the bulk and final proofing?
Do you think? Never thought of that because the crumb is very light. Yes, they do rise. I tried to slightly extend the final proofing but I think they became overprofeed. Or, I can have some troubles how to make them maintain the structure before baking when I take them out of the banneton.
before shaping trying to break up large gas bubbles. Pop them as you roll up the dough during shaping as well, it looks like the large bubbles are forming at the edges of the dough, front and sides as it is rolled up. Try degassing by attacking the flattened out dough with finger tips. Alike denting a focaccia, firmly pressing dough to the work table to break the big bubbles. Poke any stubborn ones with a pointy stick or knife. Then let the rise, rise more evenly, it may take a little longer but there should be more of those middle sized bubbles you're looking for.
Thank you! I guess I never understood the logic behind degassing the bread. It does not compromise the open crumb? Aren't we "ruining" the bulk proof?
where are the bubbles coming from?
do they get bigger as time goes on?
do too many big bubbles distort the way the dough is rising, giving a false sense of desired rise?
what are the size of the cells nearby, the bubbles between the big bubbles?
what are their shape? Strictly round or oval or loose shapes?
Never thought like that, it really is a great exercise. I will definitely try to apply this. Thank you!
Hi Veronica. I’ve watched your thread since it was published. Until now I had no idea what might have caused the crumb.
After re-reading again, I think this suggestion may help. You wrote, “ 100 % strong wheat flour - 78% hydration - 30% levain - 2% salt - 4hr room temperature between 18 and 21°(~66-68F), 3 coil folds 45' minutes apart, then pre shape and shape. 18h at 8° (46F).”
Let’s use 1000g for the flour. Dough water = 780g, salt = 20g. But when you say 30% levain, does that mean an additional 150 water and 150 flour? If so, that raises the flour to 1150 and the water to 930. The hydration would actually be 81%. If the contents of your levain was taken out of the original flour, let us know.
I don’t know your experience, but for most bakers this is a super high hydration for white flour.
The above is not what seems to have caused your crumb, though. “ 4hr room temperature between 18 and 21°(~66-68F), 3 coil folds 45' minutes apart, then pre shape and shape. 18h at 8° (46F).”
Your 4 hr bulk ferment was very cold. 18-21C (~66-68F) is not warm enough to jump start the yeast in the levain in 4 hours. On the other hand your retard temp of 8C (46F) is warm enough to allow slightly active fermentation in the fridge. Temps no higher than 3-4C (38-39F) cause the yeast to slow drastically. In your case it seems the bulk ferment was not warm enough to activate the yeast. Because of this the dough was able to continue fermenting during the retard.
Assuming your starter is active, my suggestion would be to bulk ferment warmer next time and see if that helps.
Danny
I did not consider the starter hydration, I totally forgot to point that . I'm using a t80 (like we say in Portugal) strong wheat flour, not so white. My starter is active - I feed it every day, usually 1-3-3 - and is 100% hydration.
In Portugal, it's cold. Do I suggest to extend the bulk proof, to try to change my environment temperature or to raise my fridge temperature? My fridge is at 8°c but it has some chances trought the night, it reaches 9.5°.
I'm really glad you took time to help me with this, it really helps me to adapt my process. Thank you very much :)
Your best bet is to find a way to raise the temp during your bulk ferment. If the yeast are not activated, the bread won't rise.
Things to try that may raise your temperature during BF.
Just be sure that you don't allow the temp to exceed 27C or so.
I my opinion, shaping is not the main problem. I say this because, it seems the crumb is more open in the very center. I attribute this to the center of your dough being warmer than the outer parts during retardation. Just a guess, I could be wrong.
When it comes to fermentation, very small variances in temperature can hae a great affect on your dough. For example - dough retarded at 3-4C (37-39F) will not grow noticeable during retardation. But if the temps are 5C or more the dough will rise during retardation. You may need to shorten your retardation times, since the dough is expected to grow at the temps you mentioned. For now, plan to err on the side of slightly over-fermented rather than under.
Danny