The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Commercial high extraction flour for Tartine No 3 Ode to Bourdon

delphi1's picture

Commercial high extraction flour for Tartine No 3 Ode to Bourdon

I don't want to sift (won't bore with the reasons), so wanted to rely on the community. I am looking for a few options to purchase High Extraction (Wheat) Flour for Tartine No 3 Ode to Bourdon. I haven't been able to find this sifted flour anywhere. Any recommendations? I live outside of San Francisco, but would likely purchase online. Thanks!

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy   It's their T85.  Comes in both organic and non-organic (Red Rose).  Central Milling supplies the flour to Giusto's, that Robertson and others talk about.  Central Milling is the grower and miller. Giusto, or Guisto, whichever, is the retailer.  (There is some relationship, either same people, or same family.)

Robertson also says somewhere in his books, both bread books if I remember correctly, how to make it yourself by simply combining good-quality  grocery store bread flour and good-quality grocery store whole wheat flour.  I forget  the proportions.

But if you want the original, look for T85 or Type 85.

Bon appetit.

Maverick's picture

When I lived out there, I loved going to Central Milling as mentioned above. I miss the easy access to such great flour for such reasonable prices (even if it was a bit of a drive for me). Now I just mix whole wheat with bread flour when I make something calling for High Extraction. It isn't 100% the same, but close enough since you end up with similar amounts of bran/germ, etc.

You could also go to Giusto's in South San Fran. Call them first to make sure they have what you want though.

idaveindy's picture

I just checked my Tartine No. 3 book.  On page 21, 2nd column, towards the top is where the author states that his "high extraction flour" is 85 percent extraction.

Central Milling's non-organic type 85 is at

The specifications tab says that it is ".85% ash."   

In the book, page 24, first column, he says you can make "high extraction flour" with a 50/50 blend of 100% whole grain flour and white flour.


Whole grain is usually 1.6% ash, and regular white flour (AP and Bread) in the US is usually .55% ash.

Tables V, VII, and VIII here    give a approximate relationships between extraction rate and ash content.    

Depending on which line of which table you look at, the "85% extraction" flour that Robertson refers to, could be anywhere from .75% to 1.2% ash.


See all Central Milling products at:

Organic is at the top, and "Red Rose" non-organic is toward the bottom of the page.

Central  Milling also has a 1.1% ash flour, but only in organic, at:

but it is 75% more expensive than non-organic Type 85.


The other oft-mention flour in his book is "medium-strong wheat flour", which is also explained on page 24 as being between 11% and 12% protein.  King Aurther AP flour, at 11.7% would fit that description.


The Keith Giusto Bakery Supply in Petaluma has what looks to be all the Central Milling products:

mwilson's picture
"Whole grain is usually 1.6% ash, and regular 70% extraction (type 70) white flour is usually .55% ash."

type 70 doesn't mean 70% extraction. Type or T numbers stipulate ash not extraction. T70 or type 70 would be approx. .70% ash.

idaveindy's picture

Thanks for the catch. Corrected.

delphi1's picture

Thank you for the help! So to clarify: Is Central Milling Type 85 or Type 110 the correct one for high extraction wheat flour?

idaveindy's picture

You'll have to ask Robertson which one he meant.  Or maybe ask Keith Giusto Bakery Supply, or Central Milling, as that is where Robertson might buy his flour. 

If you go by Robertson's work-around formula, of 50% Whole Wheat and 50% white, it works out like this, at least mathematically:

1/2 measure whole wheat flour, at 1.60% ash = .80. 

1/2 measure white flour, at .55% ash = .275. 

added together equals 1 measure at 1.075%.

That would lead me to think that Type 110, at 1.10% ash, is the closest.  But I'm a cheapy, and if it were I, I'd choose the cheaper non-organic .85% ash, over the more expensive organic 1.1% ash. Or, I'd get off-the-shelf Kroger brand whole wheat flour and AP flour, and mix my own 50/50 blend as he suggests.  Or, if I were feeling spendy, I'd splurge and get King Arthur brand WW and AP.

Your question has likely been asked before.  Let's ask Mr. Google, or the duckduckgo.

TomK's picture

It’s a bit confusing.

Keith Giusto Bakery Supply in Petaluma is what you want. It’s owned by Keith Giusto, and so is Central Milling. KGBS functions as the distributor for CM. It’s all the same company in effect and owned by the same guy (Keith). 

Giusto’s (with the apostrophe &s) is a different company. Long story and I’ve heard a couple of different versions but Keith, who grew up working at Giusto’s in South San Francisco  (his father and grandfather’s business), but left and went out on his own when the original company- ahem- let’s say, didn’t agree with Keith’s quality expectations.

As Keith told me a few months ago, “there aren’t any Giustos at Giusto’s any more; we have three.” (Meaning at KGBS.)

So the short version is, KGBS = Central Milling, & that’s where most of the artisan bakers in the Bay Area  get their flour. It’s the real deal.

Gotta love those passionate Italians!




vtsteve's picture

with access to their professional flours (distributor account or friendly bakery), King Arthur has an organic high extraction flour:


Organic High Extraction

12.9% Protein | >.86% Ash

This true Type 85 flour is a bolted flour made by sifting some of the bran out of whole grain flour. It falls between a white flour and whole wheat flour in terms of flavor and color. The high ash results in active fermentation and great flavor reminiscent of an old world European flour. Fine granulation allows optimum performance when used on its own or in combination with other flour. High in protein, it is well suited for breads, rolls, and pizza.

50 lb. #27050

delphi1's picture

Thanks everyone!

idaveindy's picture

via email, and heard back from someone at

Something like "which of your flours is Chad Robertson referring to in his books as 'high extraction flour,' your T85 or T110?"

The rep said it is T85, which is .85% ash.

(I figured they sell the stuff, and would be more apt to answer than Chad R.)

So there we have it.

As someone said above, is the same company as

They have 3 retail stores in northern Utah, and one in Petaluma, California, plus web order.


duncwood07's picture

I've been wondering this for years and finally thought I should google it after seeing a Giusto's logo in a photo in the Tartine book. Grew up in Sonoma, little did I know this was right under my nose.

pastrydennis's picture

How does the central milling T85 compare to Breadtopia's select bread flour which is a bolted flour.   I have been using Breadtopia's flour with great success but am wondering how it compares to other commercial bolted or high extraction flours



idaveindy's picture

On the CM web site, on their page for non-organic T85 (link above), they give the protein percent and ash %.

On Breadtopia's page for Select bolted stone ground bread flour, they give protein %, but not the ash%.   You'll have to ask them for their estimate of ash%.

Another specification to consider is whether it is malted. CM T85 is malted. Breadtopia doesn't say, though it may have enough bran that it does not need added malt.

That Breadtopia flour is stone ground, whereas the CM flour is likely roller milled, though they don't explicitly say on that web page.... meaning the Breadtopia will have more wheat germ (and hence oil) than the CM T85.

They both look good, but they are obviously not identical, so adjustments will have to be made if you switch.

Another CM product to consider is their organic Type 110. 1.1% ash, but still not the same protein percent as the Breadtopia Select.