The Fresh Loaf

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Mixing panettone dough at home

bronc's picture
bronc

Mixing panettone dough at home

What is the best sequence of mixing a panettone dough in a home stand mixer (be it KitchenAid or Kenwood)? All methods start with the starter, flour, and water which you mix for 10-15 min until a smooth dough is formed but after the addition of the enriching ingredients after that is somewhat arbitrary. For the first dough,I've seen some which suggest first adding the sugar and yolks alternating between the two and waiting after each addition for the dough to come together and adding the butter after you have added the sugar and yolks. In others I've seen a recommendation for mixing the yolks and sugar together and adding them like that. A third source recommends first adding the sugar, then the butter, and the yolks in the end. 

The methods for the 2nd dough are similar but all start with the 1st dough and the flour which you knead for 10-15min..

What would be the most efficient way to mix the dough so that you don't risk under or overmixing it in a stand mixer? I've also seen some recipes which recommend that the dough temp shouldn't go above 26C when mixing but at the same time the dough ferments at 28-30*C so this doesn't make much sense?

mwilson's picture
mwilson

There are many ways to do this. I would say the most common was to first dissolve the sugar in the water fully and then add flour, lievito madre before adding yolks and lastly butter.

With Giorilli's I hold back some of the water (~15 of the typical 50%) until then end.

I adjust my mixing style slightly dependent of the formula I am following.

It's helps to remember how each ingredient effects the mixing process. Yolks are sticky and help impart energy from mechanical mixing while butter and water tend to lubricate things and dull the energy input.

In any case it is important to prevent the dough from overheating as this can damage the gluten during mixing. Keeping it under 26C is a good guideline.

bronc's picture
bronc

Thanks. I don't think I've seen anyone mix the sugar with the water but sounds like a neat idea. Won't the sugar prevent gluten formation though? I always thought most of the gluten development happens during the stage where you mix the lievito with the flour and water. As a guideline, for relatively how much time and at what speeds (I think we both have Kenwood Chef mixers) do you mix the first and the second doughs? Thanks!

mwilson's picture
mwilson

In dough, sugar behaves like water and gives fluidity, rheologically speaking. When fully dissolved, sugar takes up about half its weight in water and forms a syrup which is sticky and helps to work out the gluten during mixing. You'll find that a dough ball will form at a much lower hydration if the sugar is first dissolved which is helpful when making Massari's Panettone since it includes approx. 35-38% water.

When mixing I rarely go above speed 2 with my Kenwood.

Asari's picture
Asari

Hey Michael,

what do you mean by holding 15% water from giorilli recepie? Do you add water at the end? Sounds like good idea I am using goirilli recepie you posted and I am always thinking first dough should be done in 25-30min but what I learned seems like not possible? Os it really possible? I am using kitchenaid professional mixer and those are my steps and only like this I can get nice stringed and smooth dough.. problem is if I dont do 1 by one egg dough turns into swimmingpool and breaks already formed dough and then its hard to get back together running more than hour and like this it takes 40-45 min... so I might try holding some water but I would like to hear from your expirience can you really get dough as it should in 30min with home stand mixer?

my steps:

all water + sugar mixing a bit just with hand whisk 2min maybe adding flour and lievito and mixing on second soeed for 15min...

dough is already nice and smooth with good gluten... now eggs 1by1 when one is incorporated into dough second one and so on.. this takes about 15-20 min and on the end butter in 3 times which also takes about 10-15 min which makes total time of 40-45 min... I am happy with dough but still I am thinking it just takes too long, any suggestions appriciated

A

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Hello Asari.

Firstly I don't own a kitchen aid, I have a Kenwood (much better IMO) but you must accept that all domestic mixers are quite poorly adapted for this process to begin with. However, with workarounds and a thoughtful approach this dough can be mixed successfully and efficiently. In fact I have completed the mix in just 12 minutes, even at low speed! So it is very possible!

Indeed for Giorilli's recipe I hold some of the water back and mix it in at the end. I think perhaps you are mixing too much too early.

For your next try, dissolve fully all the sugar in 2/3 of the water and add yolks at this point. Mix with lievito and flour until elastic. Add butter and then finish the mix with the remaining water.

Also on occasion you should stop the mix and scrape down the sides of the mixing bowl. I find this helps.

Good luck,
Michael

Asari's picture
Asari

Thx Michael,

Sounds good will give it a try next week , I would have couple of more questions if you don't mind but if you cannot answer them I understand.

-Just got information that in moulds fo 500g panettone should be used exact 500 or max. 520g of dough ? so far I used always 550g what is your opinion on this probably you tried all versions?

-Second question what is right temp. inside when Panettone is is finished ? Some say 92C° inside, 94C° even 96C°

-Last question would be, but this probably depande of the oven what should be right setup to bake I mean temperature? Now I am baking most of 500g panettone and setup is 165C° and baking time to reach in middle 94C° is 40min .

Asking this because my Panettone has awesome ovenspring and it is really soft day after baking when I cut then putting it in storage bag with no air seems like day after is kinda dry, I am not sure should I blame baking process too long or maybe can be that dough is possibly over-kneaded, if you want I can post some images because I get all nice crumb elasticity and taste absolutely no sourness following to the point lievito refreshing and timing, but still there are some points that I am sure could be improved.

Thx again hope you can bring some answers even tough I know its not easy if you don`t see and feel all steps I am doing

Cheers

A