The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Kristen has a new video on YouTube

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Kristen has a new video on YouTube

Kristen of Full Proof Baking has a new video on YouTube. She is sharing, yet another innovation that is sure to interest our bakers.

In her 50% Whole Grain video she does something that is very unique. She mixes 2 separate doughs, one with white flour and the other with 100% whole grain, and then combines the two by laminating. I am excited about the concept and plan to test it out soon. This young lady thinks outside the box.

Don’t forget. This month’s Community Bake ( last week in October) will feature her breads. This CB will be a little different than those of the past. The main bread will be her Basic Open Crumb SD. But others may opt to make one or more of her other breads. I bought Cuttlefish Ink and Butterfly Pea Tea with plans to take a ride on the wild side. She has plans to visit the CB and make comments.

If you are not familiar with her work, check this out!

Danny

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

This is interesting and a bit uncannily coincidental.  I've done a similar experiment with our past two weekly bakes.  My reasoning is a revisionist view on the common practice of giving whole grains extra time to hydrate.  As a retired evolutionary botanist, I can't help but think that the seed coats ("bran") in whole grains evolved to take up water to facilitate germination of the seeds they enclose.  Therefore, when they, in whole grain flour, and white flour (AP) are combined with water, the whole grain actually out-competes the white starchy (AP) flour for water, possibly depriving the latter of water needed for optimal gluten formation.  At least that's the hypothesis.  I've been testing it by super-hydrating (100% hydration or more) the AP portion of our weekly standard 60% wholegrain bread for several hours by itself in the fridge, and then, an hour before adding salt and leaven, diluting it up with the rest of the final water and mixing in the freshly whole-milled fraction, for a more conventional autolyse period.  The result has been a reproducibly favorable change in crumb structure, in openness and texture softness.  How combining those AP and WW fractions by lamination would change the result is a question worth asking by applying Kristin's method.

Thanks for posting this Danny.

Tom

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

“ I've been testing it by super-hydrating (100% hydration or more) the AP portion of our weekly standard 60% wholegrain bread for several hours by itself in the fridge, and then, an hour before adding salt and leaven, diluting it up with the rest of the final water and mixing in the freshly whole-milled fraction, for a more conventional autolyse period.”

Interesting. This seems contrary to popular belief. I love innovation! Often, I autolyse the whole grain only to fully soak the  grain. Then the AP was added after the whole grain was completely soaked.

Your ideas that the bran evolved to hold water for the germ is outstanding. And the bran competes with the white flour for water.

Please explain the difference between fully saturating the whole grain first, then after complete absorption has occurred adding the white flour? I am interested to learn.

NOTE - Kristen’s method uses 86% hydration for the white dough and 100% hydration for the whole wheat dough (see 15:10). It seemed to me that 86% for the white dough was extreme (she deals with high hydrations), but if you are correct the whole wheat dough will compete with the white dough for extra water, if needed. This seems plausible because the gluten sheets of both dough are stretched extremely thin during lamination and are mated together in the process.

Danny

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

This question of "which flour gets to the water first?" intrigues me as well.

One factor: Yes, I think bran absorbs water quicker (out competes) the endosperm.

2nd factor: Whole wheat flour has endosperm too, bran is still the minority.  So... I think absorption rates really have more to do with.... particle size.

As a home-miller, I make a mostly coarse grind ... larger particle sizes. (Actually, it's a range of fine/small to gritty, as produced by my Vitamix blender.)

 What I have noticed is that my home milled flour takes longer to absorb water than the store-bought finer grind flours that I used to bake with, and sometimes still include as a minority flour (up to maybe 25% of the total flour in a loaf).

I began to notice during the bulk ferment of my doughs made with mostly home-milled flour, that it needed more water, even though at the time of mixing, it met my previous "feel" standard of sufficient hydration. (I gave up measuring/weighing flour and  water a while back and go by feel now.)

AHA, I thought, those large particles took some time to soak up the water.  So now  when I mix dough from home-milled flour, I hydrate it to the point of feeling "too wet", but after it sits a while, then it's just right.

I don't remember having that "Hey, where's the water going?" thought with store-bought flours, white or whole-wheat.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

When making final adjustments to the hydration of the dough, it seems best to do so after the autolyse is complete and also after the levain has been incorporated. Experience shows that a dough will have a very different feel (hydration) after the autolyse is complete and after the levain (often 100% hydration) is incorporated. A good time to adjust the final hydration is while incorporating the salt. A brine solution is easier to mix. Just be sure to anticipate additional tightening of the dough after the salt is added.

Sharing the above for those that may not have considered it.

Dan

Benito's picture
Benito

Funny you posted this Danny, I just watched this video this morning as it was amongst my recommended videos for the day.  Kristen has some interesting ideas.  I’ve just put my dough into the banneton and I think I’m pretty good with my current slap and folds and coil folds that next bake I might finally try laminating!

Benny

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I am preparing for the upcoming Community Bake. Today I started both the Cuttlefish Ink Laminate and also the 50% Whole Wheat Laminate.

Kristen is taxing my skills... She uses very high hydrations and I’m going along with the program. For the average baker, it might be best to reduce some of her hydrations. This gal must work in galoshes and a slicker suit <LOL>

Her is her Basic Open Crumb SD. This will be the main formula for the CB. I’ve had fantastic results.


below is my play-time project for today. A lot of fun...

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I had good success with the crumb for my first attempt with Kristen’s Cuttlefish Ink Swirl bread. Both loaves below suffered (I think) because her hydrations are too wet for my skills. That is, at this time...


Her 50% Whole Wheat lamination came out OK, but I need more work with this one. I think her hydrations are way too high for me.


Tom, I’ll get you the formula as soon as I boot my computer.
Dan

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

>... her hydrations are too wet for my skills. That is, at this time...

It might be that her hydrations are too wet for your _flour_. 

Isn't she using store-bought flour, whether white or WW, that has aged months (could be well over a year for white flour) since milling, losing both moisture and volitiles from the oil?  Whereas you're using flour that is no more than hours, or days, or a couple months old at most, and thereby has lost much less.

I've read something, but forget where, that home milled flour  needs to be used within 72 hours, OR ELSE, need to age at least 2 (or 3, I forget) weeks.  Flour less than the 2 or 3 weeks is called "green".    

Commerical mills age white flour for something like a month or two before shipping it out.  I don't know what the intentional timing is on whole wheat flours.

If I recall correctly, whole wheat flour has a best-by date of 12 months after milling.  And white flours have a BB date anywhere from 2 years to 3 years after milling.

--

I don't exactly measure water, so I can't compare my home milled flours to store-bought whole hweat flours in regards to water.  But I can compare them in terms of oil.  If I add oil to home milled flour, the bread is too oily.  But I can add one tbsp oil per loaf to store-bought whole wheat flour.

I can't prove it, but it make sense that fresher home milled  flour has more moisture than whole wheat flour that has been sitting in paper bags in warehouses and grocery store shelves for at least 6 months.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

How does the black part taste?  Any fishy or ocean taste?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Not fishy at all. I wouldn't like that. Some people say it taste like the ocean. It is hard to describe and @ 6% it was not overwhelming at all. The rosemary took center stage.

Not my flour. Kristen uses King Arthur and I did also. As far as the whole grain, I used Hard Red Wheat and she used Hard White. I said this in a previous post, "This gal must wear galoshes and a slicker suit when she mixes her dough. For instance. Her 50% whole wheat laminate calls for 100% for the whole grain dough and 87.3% for the white flour (BF) dough. 87% is wet for any white flour...

If interested, I recommend you try her cuttlefish ink. It is very unique and interesting. I plan to have 3 spreadsheet ready for the Community Bake. 

  1. Basic Open Crumb SD
  2. Cuttlefish Ink Swirl
  3. 50% Whole Wheat Laminate

The featured bread will be #1, but bakers will be able to choose whichever they want. 

Dan

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Boy! The squid ink and rosemary really makes for a great tasting bread. Unlike any thing I’ve ever had. I doubled the roasted garlic but it didn’t stand out like the other 2 ingredients. More garlic next time?

This bread is not only for show, it taste sophisticated.

Dan

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

Any idea what the overall hydration is of Kristin's 50% ww in that video?  If she said it, I didn't catch it.  Just curious.  And I assume the AP and WW were separately fermentolysed at different hydrations too.

Novel technique and very nice outcome.  Thanks for posting the link Danny.

Tom

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

But thanks Danny.

I’m going to autolyse the AP and WW portions of my final 60% WW dough separately this week, then laminate then together with salt and levain.  Hydrations of autolyses will be 74% and 84% for AP and WW respectively, making final dough my usual 80%. 

A pretty painless variation on my usual routine. We’ll see. And report. 

Tom

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Here you go, Tom. Wished I would have known that you were ready to mix.

I would drop her hydrations considerably. I know I will next time. I think I will also not stretch the doughs out too thinly during lamination. Mine was paper thin and I think I over did it.

Tom, I noticed that the wrong instructions are listed on the sheets. I have finalized the spreadsheet yet. Basically, you autolyse the brown dough for 4 hours and the white dough for 2 hours. If you watched her video her lamination technique was great. She slightly spread out the white dough on the counter then she place the brown dough on top. After that she stretched both doughs outward at the same time.

 

 

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

Wow.  I don't operate at such high hydrations either.  We don't need or want our breads to be so holey.  And in my experience, the 2 kg miches that I bake weekly do not hold up well at those hydrations.  Gravity wins out and they start to look like focaccia.

Thanks man.

Tom