The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Fantastic Oven spring but horrid, underbaked and gummy crumb

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

Fantastic Oven spring but horrid, underbaked and gummy crumb

Hi,

People on the forum, request your help here. I am at my wits end. I recently baked a Batard and I got fantastic Oven spring and great caramelisation of the crust. But when I sliced the bread open after 2 hours (by which it had sufficiently cooled), I was extremely disappointed by the crumb. It was undercooked and gummy. I currently use a pair of the newest Bosch Serie 8 Ovens. The Dough was put inside a enamelled DO (which was preheated with the Oven at a temperature of 465 F for an hour) with a few cubes of Ice (which was responsible IMO for the fantastic Oven spring). I baked the bread in the DO (covered) for 465 F for 10 minutes, then I reduced the temperature to 430 F and baked for another 20 minutes in the DO after which I took the bread out of the DO and baked it on a stone at 430 F for another 30 minutes (that's 60 minutes in total). I was extremely pleased by the look of the bread, but then I got a reality check when I sliced it open. I checked the internal temperature of the crumb and it was over 200 F. This issue about gummy crumb is frustrating me now. Where am I going wrong? The dough was 85% hydration with 20% freshly milled Durum and 80% APF. Attaching a few snaps of the bread.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

by 5% and see what that does.  It could just be too wet or not baked long enough.  Crumb looks too wet to me and internal temp of 200°F for  I'm guessing, a lean bread (recipe?) would be too low, aim for 210°F with wheat.  If that burns the outside of the loaf,  the temps are too high for the bake.    

Something about the pointy shoulders (ends of slice) is making me ask about folding for dough strength during the rise.  How did that go?

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

I did 10 minutes of Slap and Folds to give the Gluten enough strength. This was followed by 2 Stretch and Folds followed by 48 hours of cold ferment. Then it was shaped and baked 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The long session of slap & folds was a good idea. But no amount of slap & folds can make a super wet dough made up of flours with weak gluten become strong. Durum flour has a huge amount of protein. So it is understandable to believe that it is a strong flour. But not all protein makes strong gluten. This is the case with durum flour. It would have been better if you used a very high protein bread flour in place of all purpose.

85% water is super wet when using refined flours.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Broto, Your hydration and flour choices sound pretty bodacious to me. All purpose flour and 20% Durum flour seems like it would produce a very slack (weak) dough. Since I have no experience with a bake similar to this, I googled Durum flour. “ Despite its high protein content, durum is not a strong wheat in the sense of giving strength to dough through the formation of a gluten network.“ That is a bold bake at a hydration of 85%.

Did the bread rise high when removed the oven and then slouch bake down after cooling? The shape of the bubbles make me wonder.

Do you have a lot of experience with bakes of this type?

You did get a nice ear...

Tell us about your baking experience, so we can better help you.

Danny

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

Thanks Danny. Yeah, I have 150 kgs of Durum Wheat on my hands and I am trying to use it any way I can. Although I finally did manage to get my hands on Hard Red Spring Wheat now. So I put a certain percentage of Durum into my dough and Slap and Fold it for 10 minutes until the Gluten is strong enough to make the dough stand on its own. I agree the Hydration is a tad bit too high, but the bread looked gorgeous out of the Oven. Just disappointed that the inside wasn't as appealing. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Unless you are an extremely skilled baker, you should consider a hydration near 65% for your initial attempts.

Where did you get the recipe?

OH! You could use the durum with Bread Flour and limit is to 10%. If that works try 15% and so on.

Do yourself a favor and drop the hydration, no matter what you choose.

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

Danny, this must be my 200th loaf in approximately 9 months. Yeah I have been on a tear ever since I baked a successful loaf. Invested in 2 top of the line Ovens a Mockmill and a kickass Stand Mixer. Plus a ton (figuratively and not literally) of Organic Wheat. Bread Flour is difficult to come by in my country, so I add Vital Wheat Gluten to strengthen the APF (but that makes the bread chewy and I add 20gms of Gluten per Kg of Apf). 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

What country are you in? Other bakers from your area may see this and suggest flours. What kind of bread flour is available to you?

Since you mill a lot of your own wheat, do you use sifters to extract some of the bran and large bits?

If you use sourdough starters and levains, you can use the sifted parts to feed your culture. You can also soak the siftings overnight and add to the dough. Using these methods will help to make lighter loaves.

 

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

I'm now in India (was based in the US before), Indian bakers save a few, will not share their secrets. I know because I've met quite a few. Although the flour scene is opening up, it's in its infancy, Artisanal Bread Flour is hard to come by. And those who do sell really good Bread Flour charge an insane amount of money ($7 for 1.5lbs). So I choose to stick to the path of least resistance when it comes to procurement, and that's store bought APF. 

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

No I don't sift my flour. Yes, I almost exclusively bake only with Levain. And once again, really appreciate the tip about sifting the flour and soaking the siftings. India is a treasure trove for some fantastic strains of Wheat, but one must know where they grow and how to procure it from the Farmers themselves. Commercial strains (mostly hybrid) aren't that great for Sourdough. 

suave's picture
suave

Truth be told, your hydration looks about 20% too high.

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

Thanks for the tip. I agree 

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

This is the bread when it had fully risen 
DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

You can be proud of the color, bloom, and ear.

Did the bread shrink down after it cooled?

Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

Yeah it doesn't look half as good as it did the day before.  Thanks again for your help. This is valuable knowledge to me 

isand66's picture
isand66
Brotokoll's picture
Brotokoll

Apologies for the delayed response. But I will. Thank you 🙂