Help me troubleshoot my Sourdough?
Hey there, so my bread did not spring in the oven and came out really dense.. the taste is fine-to-good but the texture is very off as well. Here’s the full recipe I used (sorry it’s more of a personal notes recipe):
Sourdough recipe:
750g white bread flour
750g water
150g whole wheat flour
100g spelt flour
(autolyse for 30min)
Now add:
225g of starter
salt - “20g”
50g water
Slap (pick up and slap down) and fold (onto itself) for 5min
Bulk fermentation:
Stretch and fold every 30min for 4hrs
Take out/roll out of container
Pre-shape
Rest for 10min
Shape into boules
Put into bannetons seam-side down, and cover, put into the refrigerator for 12hrs
Pull out, carefully flip onto parchment, score with lame
Put into preheated (for 1hr) 500F Dutch oven with lid on, for 20min
Remove lid and reduce heat to 450F and bake another 30min
Take out and let come to room temp for 2hrs-ish
THE PHOTO GALLERY FOR THIS MAKE IS AT: https://imgur.com/gallery/zoUaFTG
The starter was very active, doubled quickly. I kept the ambient temp in the high 70’s throughout the bulk fermentation process and when I check the temps were always 78-81 (before refrigeration).
things did feel good throughout as far as I know. The last time I attempted it was waaaay to wet and starter may not have been ready. This time though, I float tested it and it was great.
Both boules turned out like the picture I uploaded :/
Thinking that the shaping wasnt wasn’t as good as it could have been for stretching and making it “tight” but not sure.
any ideas on what happened or possibly happened would be appreciated!
From the photo alone I'd say underfermented. Either the starter was used too soon and/or the dough wasn't left to bulk ferment for long enough. From what you describe the starter seemed ok so that narrows it down. What was the dough like after the bulk ferment?
I am gonna upload all the pics.. I took photos of the dough at all stages. Is it possible it OVER fermented? The reason I ask is because at around hour 3, I was seeing really nice bubbles in the dough and it felt good.. I decided to do two more rounds of stretch and folds so like another 1.5hrs before cutting in two and then pre-shaping.
once I upload the pictures I’ll update this post as well.
It's under fermented or the starter is not firing on all cylinders. Over fermented tends to have a lot of bubbles but lack of height. Big gaping bubbles with smaller dense bubbles elsewhere points to ferment issues. Perhaps you should include a history of your starter as well.
The photo library of most of the process is: https://imgur.com/gallery/zoUaFTG
the starter is from a friend which is very old but I’ve been feeding pretty regularly at least once a day twice for the 2 days leading up to the making process.
my apartment is fairly cold though (68F). I am probably going to buy or make a proofer so I can keep the temp around 80F because it’s impossible minus yesterday when I was making the bread, where I heated up the apartment to 77F and kept the oven on to keep the area in the kitchen I was doing all this at closer to 80F — temp checked the dough where it was 80F most times
thanks for all your input! I can’t wait to give it another go.
Starter looks great! I think we can safely out our concerns with the starter aside. While you did see some blisters on top the final crumb dies suggest the bulk wasn't finished. So I'm putting it down to cold temps and under fermented.
80°F is quite warm so aim for a sweet spot of 75-78°F for a good ferment temp.
So nothing to worry about it's just about getting the timing right. If it is a bit cold then increase the starter percentage of the time.
Ya, I checked the starter with my buddy who is a sourdough ninja.. and he said it looked good to go so I wasn't _thinking_ that was it (but I also have no idea).
I think I am going to get the proofer just to make this as "fool proof" (haha, and I shall test it) as I can. I know the temp was somewhere way warmer than normal because temp checking at 78-81F was the range, but like I said it's hard to regulate it in my apartment in general so the proofer may be the easiest option (even though it's $150ish).
Is there anything I should be looking for during the bulk fermentation that would suggest, I need another stretch and fold or when i know that process is done and it's good to separate, pre-shape, and then put into the fridge? And 12hrs in the fridge should be good?
Thanks for all your help, I will eventually get this. :)
edit: may also add more like 25-30% starter next time I try per calneto's comments below.
I'd also say it is under fermented, judging by the picture.
I use a very similar recipe and bulking times as you do and have been getting consistent results for the last loaves. My room temperature is higher, though, usuall in the upper 80's. My last loaf was bulked at pretty much constant temperature of 80F. I have been bulking from 4h to 5h30 at this temperature with the resulting being almost the same. I also use 20% of starter. How long have you had this starter? Maybe you could try using more, say 30%, next time you bake. Or extend bulking time to, say 6h. I remember that before I laced my starter with an older one (my original one is from Nov 2018), I used to get loaves like this one too, and only started getting better results with much longer bulks (loaf #33 bulked for 6h30 and proofed for another 2h, all at 80F).
Here is the photo gallery of most of the process: https://imgur.com/gallery/zoUaFTG
so the starter is over a year old (there is a picture too), and as I said in a reply that the starter was regularly fed at least once a day (but the apartment is cool 68F), but for the last day where I fed multiple times I let the apartment go to 75F along with the oven on where the temp checked at nearly-80 to 82F.
i May buy a dough proofer to keep the temp where it needs to be.
thanks for all your input. I am not sure I would know when I need to add stretch and folds to the bulk fermentation process? I will do better to keep it warmer (probably will buy the proofer).
Maybe it is a good idea to get the proofer. The loaf is definitely under fermented and stretching and folding play no part in that, so don't worry about that. Folds have more to do with adding structure and developing gluten, not fermentation itself (they do help moving nutrients around for the funghi and bacteria in your starter, but not to the extent of cutting an hour of bulk time).
Before shelling out the 150 bucks, try 30% starter and a longer bulk (I'd go for 7h, what the heck!).
slow down a bit and wait until the dough starts rising before folding. At your cool temps, the dough might not even need retarding, just a slow rising on the counter with some folds now and again to reshape the loaf gently. Try that. See how long it takes to get a shaped risen loaf you could pop into the oven.
80% hydration not counting the starter.
I would hold off on buying the proofer—buying doodads won't solve the problem of not being able to read the dough.
If your ambient temperature is hard to control, try proofing your dough in the microwave or oven, both with the light on. I find that I'm able to get 78–80F with this method, no Brod&Taylor required.
Don't mistake the bubbles on the outside for fermentation activity. A lot of it could just be due to your handling of the dough.
Based on the description of your method, it seems like you are relying on time and not look and feel of the dough. In other words, you're doing the stretch and folds every 30 minutes regardless of how it's actually developing.
I might recommend stretching out (no pun intended) the folds. For instance, instead of 30 minutes, I'd aim for 45 or even 60 minutes. If your dough is still pretty extensible, I'd probably add more stretch and folds beyond what your recipe is telling you. I would recommend that the bulk fermentation happen before you preshape and prep it for the refrigerator retard. If you jump the gun on bulk fermentation, you will get a gummy loaf like the one you see.
A real-world example: I made a boule yesterday, making folds when the dough was not yet ready because I based it on my tried and true method. The dough was still rather sticky and did not take well to the fold, so I just stopped the fold, put it back in the bowl, and let it ferment a bit more. I came back to it 45 minutes later, and I had a better time with the fold. If I didn't make the adjustment to my method, I might have ended up with a more-gummy loaf.