The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Reinhart's San Francisco Sourdough from "Crust & Crumb"

  • Pin It
dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Reinhart's San Francisco Sourdough from "Crust & Crumb"

SF SD from Reinhart's Crust&Crumb

SF SD from Reinhart's Crust&Crumb

 

SF SD from Reinhart's Crust&Crumb Crumb

SF SD from Reinhart's Crust&Crumb Crumb

 

When I started baking bread again after a 20 year lapse, it was to make two types of bread I loved but I could not get locally: Jewish Sour Rye and San Francisco Sourdough. The first bread book I purchase was Peter Reinhart's "Crust & Crumb," and I made his (prize winning) version of SF SD several times. It has been a while since I baked from this formula, and my understanding of bread making has advanced considerably. The Fresh Loaf community deserves most of the credit.

 

Well, it was time to return to my personal starting point and try again. In the meantime, I had made many sourdoughs, most of which in recent months have been with higher hydration doughs. So Reinhart's SF SD dough seemed really stiff to me. This time around I followed Reinhart's formula exactly, adding the diastatic malt for the first time. 

 

I fed the starter with KA Bread Flour. I used the same flour for the chef and the dough and added about 1/2 cup of whole rye.  The firm starter was retarded overnight before mixing the dough, and I also retarded the loaves after they had risen to 1 1/2 times their initial volume. I baked them after warming them at room temperature for 2 hours. I had forgotten how much I liked the flavor of this bread. The taste was quite sour, which I happen to like, and the crumb, while not quite as open as I wanted, was moist and chewy. 

 

Next time, the only change I'll make is to increase the hydration slightly.

 

David 

Comments

zolablue's picture
zolablue

Wow, those loaves are gorgeous! I would be very happy to have those. I even like the crumb as sometimes I just think it makes such a nice sandwich loaf when it isn't quite as open. Heck, I like it all! Really nice!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Zolablue. 

Thanks for your nice comments. 

I compared my crumb to that in the photo of this bread in Crust & Crumb, and they are not very different. Reinhart's own loaf has very slightly larger holes, but it's not that different. 

My benchmark for SF SD is still the original "wharf bread" baked by Parisian Bakery in San Francisco. The flavor and chew of Reinhart's SF SD is the closest of any formula I've found. The crumb is actually more open. Parisian's version had small, evenly-sized holes, as I recall, like a bread I would regard as over-kneaded.  

David

holds99's picture
holds99

Those are really exceptionally nice loaves with great crust color and markings and nice interior.  You certainly haven't lost your touch.

HO

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Beautifully Handsome loaves is right!  ..and supreme photo shots!   

Mini O

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Thanks, HO and Mini O! 

The diastatic malt is supposed to contribute to the color of the crust. I think it does. The Julia Drayton camellia has nice color, too, I think. 

Some of the bread photos others have posted are truly stunning. They shame me into trying, at least, to be more aesthetic in my own. I'm glad you liked the pics, Mini.  

David

holds99's picture
holds99

David,

Didn't know which type camellia it was but it certainly is beautiful and complements the photograph of the loaves.  Camellias and gardenias are my wife and my favorite flowers.  We have a bush of each in our yard.  I'll have to look at the local nursery and see if they have a Julia Drayton camillia.

Howard - St. Augustine, FL

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I missed this post for some reason. This is a project I have been working on from past memory also. It was "Wharf Bread" that I so enjoyed with my parents while visiting SF. Really that memory is a major part of my drive to learn to bake after all those years. Yours look very authentic and the crumb looks like it would have a nice chew.

I'll have to look at the BBA to see if PR has the recipe in there and how it differs from what I have been doing. My sourdough is generally mild but every now and then I get one has a nice tang. I have been trying to identify what I do to make the sour batch so I can do it repeatedly. I've been following the sour thread with you and Mike and I agree with your suggestions on using a firm starter.

David, what is your opinion on the right internal temp for a sourdough boule. I suspect I may be drying them out a bit which would decrease the SD experience I think.

Eric

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Eric. 

The formula for "basic sourdough bread" in BBA is a somewhat simplified version of that in Crust & Crumb."  In my opinion (and Reinhart's!), the Crust & Crumb bread is better. That's the bread in this blog entry. 

Regarding loaf temperature: I worry about under-baking but not about over-baking. I do check the internal temperature when checking for doneness. I want something over 205F. If my instant-read thermometer is shooting past 207 or so, I take all the loaves out.

David

Janedo's picture
Janedo

I have yet another attempt at this bread in my fridge that will be baked tomorrow. Just a word about hydration. I admit that the first tries I did, I found the dough too stiff and I thought it was because of our flour differences. I added water, just a bit, and the dough looked great! THEN, after the first rise, it started to spread and during the second rise, it was even more spread. I once had to start all over again because it just spread WAY too much and once I baked it before the overnight retardation. It wasn't very sour. This time, I fully respected his proportions and the dough was STIFF compared to what I'm used to, but I persevered. Now on it's second rise, it has spreading just right, I'd say.

I just thought I'd let you know... water is dangerous with these long rises and retardation periods. 

jacobsbrook's picture
jacobsbrook

My first try at this bread.  David I am hoping that one day my loves turn our as nice as yours.  I'm sure it all takes time and lots of experience. 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

jacobsbrook's picture
jacobsbrook

Thanks

jmdestefanoii's picture
jmdestefanoii

Hopefully David or someone can straighten me out on this one.


In the Barm Sponge Starter Formula from Crust & Crumb, Br. Reinhart uses "diastatic wheat or barley malt powder or liquid" on day 1, and simply "malt" on day 2 and 3 (C&C, 2006, p. 74).  This raised several questions for me...


1) Is this the same ingredient?  or is his formula switching from diastatic to non-diastatic malt? 


2) If switching to non-diast. malt, could I substitute Brwn Sugar for the malt in days 2 and 3 with success? 


3) Could Barley Malt Syrup be substituted in for the barley malt liquid on day 1?


Thanks in advance for all insight, and direction!


From San Diego... Joey D.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Joey.


I don't have my copy of C&C at hand, but I'm pretty sure "Barley Malt Syrup" is exactly the same as "Barley Malt Liquid."


You can substitute sugar for non-diastatic malt, since the latter is basically just a source of sugar.


I have never actually constructed a "Barm" according to Reinhart. I use my own long-time starter which I keep at about 67% hydration. So, I'm not sure about your first quetion. I'll try to remember to check on the text you referenced this evening.


David