Can't graduate past pineapple juice
So I was finally able to get a starter going the Reinhart method/recipe, which for days 1-2 you use pineapple juice. On day 3, after switching from pineapple to water, it fizzled out, as mine always do...
After 2-4 days feeding it water, I tried feeding it going BACK to pineapple juice, and voila, it came back and within 2 days of feeds (1 per day I believe) it is easily doubling or tripling but ONLY when I feed it with pineapple...
If I take my pineapple 'mother starter,' and skim some off and do another starter but this time using water, it doesn't rise as much on feeding 1, and by feeding 2 seems lifeless.
I'm at whits end here, what else can I be doing wrong? I use high quality BREAD FLOUR, bottled spring water and I just don't know what else to try. I've started so many starters the last 2 months and the only one that has come close is this one but ONLY does its job when I use pineapple...
It may help if you have a picture or analogy of what you are trying to accomplish. Think of the yeast spores present in the flour as seeds. They are totally inactive and buttoned up,asleep, until the environment is more favorable for their growth-just like garden seeds. They need water, warmth (same comfort range as a human), uncontaminated food (no bleach, wholegrain is good for them but AP works well) and a slightly acidic surroundings (like soil) so the bad boys don't grow and eat their food before they can wake up. Pineapple juice works to provide the acidity sooner and prevent growth of the nasties right from the get-go. Naturally present lactobacillus will also wake up (a little faster than the yeast) and start eating and churning out acid by-product and gas. That is the source of the initial bubbles in a mix. Starter can be made without pineapple juice. It just goes through a more active initial stage (kind of a false start) and then die-down when it is made with just water.
Planned Neglect
I suspect your culture is not very yeast populated. The best thing to do is to NOT discard and NOT feed for perhaps a day or two and see if the yeast population builds. Just stir to keep the yeastie beasties in contact with a new surrounding of food. Yeasts can't move to their food-it has to be presented-hence the stirring. Every discard and feed reduces their population dramatically at a time you are trying to build it up. It also reduces the acidity so that other beasties grow and compete for the food-like weeds in the tomato patch. After a few days of just stirring and not discarding/feeding, you should start to see more consistent bubbling and that is when you offer a feeding(not a discard). The purpose of the discard is to "clean their cage". If you don't have many yeasts, there is no reason to do this and remember, you end up throwing a lot of your population away with a discard.
Starter
In a 1 pint jar with lid or equivalent (keeps out fruit flies and prevents a skin from forming)
2 tbsp. unbleached wheat flour-any variety. (AP cheapest, whole grain has higher natural yeast population)
Unchlorinated spring water-enough to make a pancake batter consistency with the flour.
Mix in container and stir several times a day for the next several days.
Note when a few bubbles form at the edges-keep stirring.
When there are consistently bubbles all around or in the mix, offer a tbsp. of additional flour and enough water to form the same pancake batter consistency. This may need to be repeated the next day.
Keep stirring several times a day with a clean spoon each time.
It is ready for discard/feeding routine when it becomes much more bubbly OR level starts to rise OR it smells vinegary or even like nail polish remover OR it forms hootch (clear/gray liquid on top of batter). This means whatever is eating is hungry and needs more food! Probably the lactose and a few yeasts. Stir the hootch in or pour it off (big debates over this), discard half the starter and feed.
Feeding
DIscard about half. This is why I make starters in such small amounts-there is a lot of wastage.
Add same amount water back and enough flour to make that batter consistency.
Let it sit and enjoy the meal while you observe. Stir it a couple times a day. It may only need to be fed once a day for a few days but you will know when it is hungry-it will form hootch and get quite vinegary/acetone-y. Discard and feed as before. Now you are cleaning the cage and discarding half the lacto population as well as yeasts but by now there are enough yeasts so it doesn't matter, too much. The lactos grow before the yeasts and usually more prolifically. Lactos also can produce a lot of bubbling action but it usually is not enough to support the long, heavy rise that bread requires. More of a "flash-in-the-pan" and fizzles.
Some people measure feedings and advise a 1:1:1 feeding at this time (1 part starter-1 part flour:1 part water) and higher ratio flour for maintenance when it is more mature. Do whatever works for you. Starters, like people, are pretty adaptable and can be fed in a measured way or haphazard way. Either way, they will survive and even thrive. Yeast is very sensitive to warmth to grow their population. They like 80-90F (like people) and die at 115F. Under 80, they are slow as molasses. A good environment for encouraging yeast growth is above the refrigerator, on top of a hot water tank, in a box with an incandescent light bulb on (microwave/oven), on a desk with a desk lamp pointed at it.
When you see the culture rising to double (mark the level with a rubber band at feeding time so you can see the rise) consistently, it is probably time to feed twice a day. It may even be time to use it in your first loaf.
After a starter is well established, it can be used to make a loaf. It is well established when it is consistently fed twice a day at room temp AND it consistently doubles/triples after a feeding. Starter is inherently designed to be used daily-some is taken off (discarded if not used) and used in bread,rolls or pancakes and the remainder-the "mother" - is fed, allowed to sit and grow for the next day. So at room temp, "Mother" needs to be fed daily OR she can be put to sleep so that she only needs feeding once a week. That is what happens when she is refrigerated. Once a week she is brought out, discarded, fed and sits at 80F, becomes active and is used for baking. She is then put back in the refrig (after she has had time to eat and digest) for another week. That is the life of a starter. Plant the seed, water/feed them,keep them warm, weed the garden, harvest, keep feeding.
Making the bread is a whole different tutorial!
Have fun!
Your explanation was outstanding and the comparison to things we all relate to was ingenious. I like your response so much, that I copied and saved it.
It would be nice if Floyd would post this for future reference so others seeking starter advice could look it up. We could reference the link in responce to others seeking starter information.
Thanks.
Danny
Thank you for the compliment. I'm an ongoing learner on this wonderful forum and am grateful for all the help I have received here over the years. I try to pay it forward.
'On day 3, after switching from pineapple to water, it fizzled out, as mine always do...
crucial at this stage to stop feeding and wait till it wakes up.
Instruction for day 4 - take a break for however long till your starter shows signs of activity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wTt8VGyBdk
The King’s Roost - starting your own wild yeast with pineapple juice, first day only, and using Rye flour. It worked after I went through almost 10 pounds of flour and ripping my hair out.
Try this. It's what I used, and I've recommended it countless times. It explains it perfectly, day by day.
http://yumarama.com/968/starter-from-scratch-intro/