The Fresh Loaf

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Would 'M' like my weak flour double Os?

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

Would 'M' like my weak flour double Os?

I was in London yesterday and at Linas Stores they had this very nice Italian 00 pizza flour which I understand is low in protein and gluten but might give me a lovely crunchy crust....(thank you again for the tip Abe, but they did not have the durum anymore.....)

So, I worked with Matteo Festo's low gluten formula as in his book Natural Leavenings and the key difference to my normal process was that he uses much more leaven to speed up the bulk and only a very short rest for the dough after mixing with leaven and then adding the salt.

It made beautiful soft dough but I was very gentle during mix and a much shorter and gentle Rubaud. 

Mix - Very gentle! 68% hydration

Start of bulk...and with 3 gentle coil folds at 30 min interval I left the dough alone until the end of bulk....

end of bulk... I loved that dough...reminded me of my ciabatta bake....

25 min bench rest -

final shape - messed the boule up almost as I shaped as a batard by mistake and then just rounded it up and ended up as boule....

It was was a lovely late summer sunny day to I went with room temp proofing although scoring terrifies me and getting the proof wrong!

and here is the Double O Boule....

The crust felt really crunchy and can't wait till tomorrow to cut and see crumb.....

Here is the morning and crumb shot time......It has this amazing creamy white colour and the crust is really crunchy and thin..

Made me think of a white canvas and what to put on it.......purple blackberry jam of course!!!!  Love this experiment but miss the taste of rye and spelt....

Comments

kenhill85's picture
kenhill85

Can't wait to see the crumb :)

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and I so want to cut it now!!!!! Have you planned your next bake? Kat

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

To make sure they have it in stock. I'm sure they'll have some back in soon.

Well you've certainly made a lovely loaf with your second choice. That pizza flour certainly made a lovely loaf in the right hands.

When you're next in London there's a new Swedish bakery that just opened which would certainly be worth a visit.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and the lady in the shop laughed when I told her that I am going to make bread with the pizza flour...!

I still have the Caputo Durum and this could be possibly the next experiment.... Kat

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

with low gluten flour and yours is one of them! Just gorgeous!

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and I feel like the practice is coming in and learning to understand the dough better including the flour....so where I thought it was the 'weak' flour at the beginning of my journey I now know it was my own limitations!  Kat

Solano's picture
Solano

Your comment reminded me once that I saw someone saying that to blame the flour needs a lot of experience, you need to make sure it's not the skills. At that time I was just starting out, watching a lot of videos and trying to replicate what I saw, people slap and fold and the dough became beatiful, when I was going to do it, no matter how long I slap and fold, the dough was never like the videos, it kept sticking and sticking more and more. So I blamed the flour, complaining that we did not have access to good flour. When I read that person saying that, I stopped bothering with flour, testing different brands, of course, but I focused more on the skills I needed to develop. The limitations are no longer the flour, but mine, if anything went wrong, was because I did not find the right way. And now, thanks to your tip I got a nice loaf of bread with the same flour I had so often blamed. :)

Solano

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and I am glad that I could help....but the key was your not giving up...something I always tell my son...:D  Kat

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Seems you can make great bread with any flour and have it turn out great.  Well done and happy baking NP ( Not Pepper)

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

to experiment with different flours...the crust was amazing which must have been the pizza flour or maybe because I baked it with more steam or...I should not have changed more than one variable.....oh well....

Ru007's picture
Ru007

What a crumb!! That's a fine looking loaf Kat, really nice. 

Happy baking

Ru

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and I wonder what would have happened, if I would have used more water....ha, ha another time.... Kat

Solano's picture
Solano

Two more for your collection! Of course, just a collection of photos, I bet the breads have disappeared faster and faster! hahaha

I wonder what caused the difference in the crust, the flour or the fact of going direct from the counter to the oven? Or both. I realized that difference in my bread too, my mother who is crazy about the crust loved it!

The next time you come back to this store, take these pictures to show to the lady!

Nice work with these breads!

Solano

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and interesting what you say about the crumb....I thought it was the flour as I read that the pizza flour might affect the crust somewhere...

However, I also slightly changed my baking temp and steaming as well as proofing at room temp and any of those could have been it too....

Oh dear, should only change one variable at the time and know better by now.....curious what will happen when you use more levain as per formula....it worked for me and I never made so much levain for a bake!    Kat

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I have 10 # of " 00" Caputo rimacinata that I got online. We have used it for pasta and it was wonderful. I wanted to experiment with using it for bread as well. Can you pass along your numbers ? If you don't want to pass them in the forum perhaps you could message or direct me to your source. 

Thank you !  That is an impressive bake. c

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and the formula was from Matteo Festo's ebook Natural Leavenings...He bakes beautiful bread and you can find a lot of information on him on IG https://www.instagram.com/ca_mia_breadlab/?hl=en

 

I will DM you too....

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I will definitely look at his site. I’m not familiar with it c

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

Great looking bread.  Trailrunner (and anyone else), I like Caputo 00 flour for ciabatta.  Makes a really soft dough with great texture and is superb for dipping in oil.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

wondering about trying it with a ciabatta next time.........Do you combine it with the Caputo Semolina/Durum too?

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

I do a substitution of the Caputo Tipo 00 flour for the all-purpose flour in the recipe from Cook's Illustrated (see Dan's thread on your favorite ciabatta recipes for more info).  No semolina or durum.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

“00” is durum flour just highly sifted/ finely ground. Will definitely use for next ciabatta. I would guess would be great for focaccia as well. 

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

Trailrunner, I guess my comment should have been "no other durum than the 00" and no semolina.  The one thing I noticed from making the substitution is that I benefited from running the KitchenAid mixer at medium speed (rather than medium-low) to help bring the 00 flour together.  And I would suspect that it makes a fine focaccia too.

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Trailrunner. That can't be right. "00" is not made from durum wheat.

Tipo "00" represents ash content of flour made from Triticum aestivum. Italian millers don't apply this grading system to durum wheat.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

the semola Rimacinata “00” would be durum.. perhaps the “00” does just refer to the grind but all Caputo brand is durum as far as their website. Always confusing for sure! The 00 refers to how much bran and germ are removed

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Semola rimacinata (re-milled semolina) is made from durum wheat. That is right. Other flours that are specified as type 00, 0, 1, 2 are made from common wheat. This is true of Caputo's or any other Italian Millers range.

I'm not sure where you getting this term Rimacinata "00". Rimacinata is used exclusively for durum wheat whereas the numbering system which represents ash content i.e. how white the flour is, is used for common wheat.

PalwithnoovenP's picture
PalwithnoovenP

What loaf you achieved Kat. The crust looks delicate as well as the perfectly open crumb.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and it is so much fun to try different flours...I think the crust had to do with the flour but you never know.... :D Kat

mwilson's picture
mwilson

I remember using that flour years ago!

A fine bake indeed. Very well done.

 

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

Michael and do you think that the crisp crust is due to the flour?

I am looking at how to improve the crust of my breads and experimenting at steam and longer baking times to get a nice thin, crackly and also darker bake without burning my bottoms in the Rofco B20.... such a balance.... Kat

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Lower protein leads to a crispier product. This is note worthy when making pizza dough. Higher protein gives a tougher chewier crust. Acidity also provides more chew.

Removing moisture from the oven after steaming is very important.

If you reduce the oven temp to below 180C the crust wont burn but it will continue to dry out. This will make the crust thicker and help to achieve a crust that cracks.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and this confirms what I have heard from another baker who bakes with a Rofco and recommended to bake longer at 190C to get a darker crust without burning the buttoms or the bread....I keep experimenting with that by heating oven at 260C, steam, load and lower to 190C after 1 min and bake 20 min with steam and then open vents and bake the rest with 190C...I sometimes then raise temp again to 230C for the last 3 min or so to darken crust more....

Steaming a Rofco is not an excact science either....at least not with me.... Kat