The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

My 3rd batch of Joze's version of 50/50 community bake...

not.a.crumb.left's picture

My 3rd batch of Joze's version of 50/50 community bake...

3rd batch

Same approach and this time I put the dough into the wine cooler at a warmer temp at 8C to see whether I get those nice bubbles as Joze does. No bubbles but the dough was without a doubt more bubbly and puffy. I managed to get it on my impromptu floured teatowel couche....they look a little bit like battered fish...huh.....

Then disaster struck and apart from one they ALL stuck to the towel and I salvaged what could be done..that's why one looks more like a croissant in the basket...

The only one that did not get stuck had such big holes that my son and his friend had to have it with fried eggs and bacon for breakfast to cover the holes after a late night watching shooting stars in the hammock!!!

So...I will have to have another batch with the warmer continued bulk fermentation and see....

Thank you gain Joze for sharing...this will be a regular bake in our house for rolls I think!  Kat

p.s. My mind is also wondering what would happen, if I were to follow this approach for a bread? There is actually a baker on IG who bakes using room temp bulk followed by a longer much to think about and soooo many ways to approach those beasties!!

2nd batch 

I followed more or less the same process as for 1st batch but with the following changes:

1. I extended the bulk fermentation to 3 hours until the dough was really bubbly and had risen as per Joze's description, however I did less folds and ended up with 3 folds 2 first 30 min and then one at the end of bulk before putting dough into the wine cooler...

2. The dough was at 6c in wine cooler for 12 hours and dough temp was 6.5C when I took temp in the morning. Now, I read in Matteo's Festo's book Natural Leavening that he actually let's his dough adjust for 1 hour to room temp and as my dough was not a bubbly as Joze's after 12 hour bulk I thought I give this a go. I think my wine cooler is colder than Joze's at my 6C setting....    he said his fridge is in 8-9C region??

So at the end of the 1 hour room proof the dough was 16C and out on the worktop it came...oh how sticky!!!

I divided again and put on heavily floured towel for room proof at 30min....and then on baking sheets...which again was a very sticky affair...lost some bubbles on the way for sure with my handling....


I am still learning about my oven and I think as I let it heat up for longer than last time the rolls browned much quicker or was it more steam or not...not sure...

This is an amazing version and thank you for sharing Joze!

1st batch 

Oh I am so pleased with the outcome of this...thank you so much for sharing Joze!!!!!!

It was a bit of a chaotic day and evening where I had to cut corners on Joze's instructions and got worried about the happy with this and have another one on the go as I write this...2 of the rolls have been gobbled up already for lunch!!!

I made twice the amount of dough and this made something like 4 biggish rolls.

One roll cut across

so soft and squashy so I cut the next one horizontally....

OK...I try to summarise what I did...

I doubled the formula given to me in Joze's blog and I used starter rather than YW.


50g WW Organic Strong Marriages

50g Organic White Marriages

100g water

20g starter

 Main dough:

280g water

200g  WW Organic Strong Marriages

200 g Organic White Marriages

10g Himalayan salt + 60g water (double hydration, bassinage)

I started autolyse and starter at the same time but somehow when I use different flour than the normal flour with my starter it seems to take a AL was actually 5 HOURS until leaven was ready and even then a bit on the not too bubbly side and younger but I wanted to make a start!! Room temp at 25C for both.

I did Rubaud to mix leaven first with a 15min break and then added 60g water with diluted 10g salt. This turned out a very wet dough...I never have gone as high as 88% hydration!!!

4 X at 30 min coil folds as I thought it needed stronger folds to get any strength and proofing at 25C/75F

It showed signs of building strength  and bubbles and I ran out of time and although I wanted to give it a bit more time to get more bubbly and more rise I just put it into the wine cooler at 4C at 10PM. I know that the cooler is normally a bit warmer than display and is around 6Cish..

When I checked dough at 8AM it was 6C and not many bubbles and rise as in Joze's photos. So I upped the temp in wine cooler and I also have it another very gentle coil fold to get air into dough and distribute temp...that was just a hunch....

in the end took out to proof approx. 30 at room temp 22C at 11AM.

Dough before dividing...

11;30AM Divided dough (dough temp was by then 16C) and also gave another proof sitting on towel for 30 min and then baked as per Joze's timings.

Bake 12:00 at temps per Joze...

Moving from towel to paper for loading was a tricky and sticky!!! Could have been disaster and the ones on the right stuck to the towel and got a bit deflated!

Baking in B20...

Next time I will let the dough finish bulk until more rise and see what this does...however as WW moves fast maybe that was just a good thing....??

This will be such a lovely bake to do for rolls I think and thank you so much Joze!!!!




Elsie_iu's picture

They puffed up significantly in the oven.

I really like the rustic look of ciabatta rolls but am hesitant in shaping the dough that way. That's because they need some towel set-up for support, which I find to be more tricky than just placing the dough into the banneton then forget about it...

Congrats for the great bake!

not.a.crumb.left's picture

I did this the first time with the towel after seeing it online...I am actually not convinced whether the dough really needed it for just the 30 min and whether I could have proofed directly on the sheets for the oven...I think it is only scary as I did not put enough flour on some part of the towel and this is where the dough stuck...otherwise it is actually not that much hassle.....Kat

DanAyo's picture

Very nice looking bread!

Maybe I need to re-think the shaping process. The aveoli look like those in a well shaped loaf. I really like the image of the bread in the basket.


not.a.crumb.left's picture

I did not do really very much with the dough. I just let it fall out of the well oiled container and then divided without doing anything else. A bit like in the

video  and this gave me the idea with the rolls...

I just divided and then put on the towel to rest for 30 min and then on to paper to be loaded into oven. I have another batch on the go now in the wine cooler and I did let the room temp bulk go a bit further this time...We shall see what happens....  Kat

DanAyo's picture

That one is book marked :-))


not.a.crumb.left's picture

if you've found is useful...  I wish he would show how to get it from there into the oven!  Kat

dabrownman's picture

YW or both:-)  Yours came out perfect and the rolls are grand and not from a can!  Happy baking NACL

not.a.crumb.left's picture

and I feel so happy that I now also could create it twice pushing the fermentation a bit further...

What a great idea and formula from Joze!  

trailrunner's picture

Really lovely crust and crumb !  Are you going to make yeast water and try it with the formula ?  It is a very wet puffy dough for sure. I am thinking about making the starter stiffer as with YW 100% hydration levains can be a very very wet prospect. I got a much smaller but very even crumb with my bake and lighter color even with baking at 500 to start. I think that is a feature of the YW but not sure as it doesn't always happen that way. There are a LOT of variables. You certainly hit it on the nose ! Perfection. 

not.a.crumb.left's picture

and I was wondering to try YW and see what result I get with that...

I was using my 100% hydration starter and as I NEVER handled a dough that wet my saviour was actually using coil folds instead just the stretch and folds and that gave the dough much more strength. So much so as I had to go out and on the 2nd batch only gave it 3 folds within 3 hours two within the 1st hour and one at the very end.

I think I got the more open crumb on the 2nd batch maybe due to less folds and longer bulk fermentation and time at room temp proof.

I was wondering to do another bake with a 'warmer' cold bulk at 9C as I did it at 6C and my dough did not look at 'bubbly' as Joze's.  I have also another ciabatta formula from an Italian baker Matteo Festo 'Natural Leavenings' and I was wondering to experiment with that. He also uses cold bulk but at 4C for up to 24 hours and then 1 hour at room temp for dough to get warm and also 30 min proofing on the towel, if I remember. But I am very tempted to try the YW...

Happy Baking and looking forward to your next bake...   Kat

alfanso's picture

What a great bake and write-up.  Joze should be proud at what he has spawned.


not.a.crumb.left's picture

and Joze has certainly woken up a simmering interest in cold bulk that I had and now he got my 'brain' totally

going with all this ideas about different combinations of bulk fermentation. I had a good look at txfarmers 36 hours baguette and pondering on whether I 

do this as the next learning step as a baker..or look at her take on ciabatta based on the 36 hours a lot of reading about baguettes and I know it is one of your regular great bakes!!!!  I might come and ask for help....:D Kat

joc1954's picture

I am glad that I have spawned something not really "new" but a twist in the procedure and also thinking. I am always afraid when posting something what was not 100% thoroughly tested because so many things may go wrong.  Luckily, this time I was able to document it well enough.

Happy baling Alan!



joc1954's picture

You just nailed it! Awesome result. I am really happy that the recipe works and is reproducible. So now you have a completely new area for experimenting and changing flours.

Happy baking Kat!


not.a.crumb.left's picture

and this will be a regular bake  in our house without a doubt!  Kat