The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Tartine, attempt 2

Got-to-Baguette-Up's picture

Tartine, attempt 2

My second attempt at Trevor J's tartine method/recipe.  Better than the first time, admittedly.  Not nearly as gummy.  I'll chalk that up to better starter and maybe Dan Ayo's refrigeration technique.  Think this one overproofed a little though.  I let it sit out 2 hours 20 min, thinking the refrigerator would halt its progress like it does my country french loaves.  It did not.  The tartine grew in the fridge, maybe because wet doughs just do that.  So the outer appearance is a little slouchy.  

The crumb is 'lacier' than my last, but not nearly open like a tartine should be.  Nevertheless, for a 33% whole wheat this is a very open and edible bread in my opinion.  

My final thoughts:  I am not getting that open crumb with BIG holes like I want.  My shaping was as good as it gets on this one.  I think the bulk fermentation and preshape went fine as well.  So maybe its all just the lack of oven spring because of the overproof?  Could be, but I think the most likely thing is that I need to start shaping younger dough and letting it proof more.  Will update you in a few days with the results. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

And of course, the trying is good fun. And good food, too! :)

syros's picture

Hi there, I wanted to comment on this thread as I was one of the participants of the Champlain SD thread. Trevor recommended to me to increase the levain to 100g and if I wanted to change the timing of the bake to let it rest for about an hour after shaping on the counter and then in the fridge overnight to bake in the morning.  This eliminates the pre-mix and overnight autolyse that he does. The adjusted recipe is as follows, thanks to Abe:

Re-Arranged for 100g starter but keeping the total flour and water the same:   

  • 279g water
  • 364g bread flour
  • 38g whole spelt flour
  • 19g whole rye flour
  • 100g starter (50g water + 50g AP flour/bread flour)
  • 9g salt

You would do the autolyse as usual, flour and water for about an hour or so, then the levain and salt, stretch and folds, pre-shape, shape, rest, and then retard in the fridge. He uses only 50g of starter because of his long autolyse. I like Trevor’s recipes very much but I am also a huge Maurizio fan as well. His beginner sourdough recipe was the the first one I ever made. I think the key to success with either one (or any one for that matter) is plain trial and error and learning to know your starter - which Trevor strongly suggests - and watching the dough.  

I find when working with higher hydration dough, doing stretch and folds every 15 minutes for the first 3 or 4 sets is a big factor for me. I can’t do the Rubaud method because it’s too taxing for my arm and I detest slap and fold. 

Both of these bakers have great skills and techniques. They make it look so easy, and if only!

Keep us posted!


Got-to-Baguette-Up's picture

Thanks Sharon,

I've been tweaking the Trevor method a little myself, just based on the time I have, what I feel like doing, and what I think will make a better bread than last time.  

I have a few questions:  When you use 100g, do you bulk ferment for less time?  If not, why does the long autolyse make for a dough that needs less starter?  

Do you find this method improves the bread vs. the method in his video?  What is better?  

Thanks for your feedback!

syros's picture

I went back and checked my method. I followed trevor’s Original recipe but upped the levain to 100g. I did not have as open a crumb as hoped. So I think what I did next (because I can’t find all my notes) is that I skipped the pre-mix and did a regular autolyse with the flour and water only, then added the levain and salt. Basically, I stopped making the Champlain Sourdough that Trevor does, because it was a bit frustrating for me - I only have so much patience - and the pre-mix, overnight autolyse, the adding the levain and bulk fermentation was just too much for me. I’ve been making a tweaked version that can be done in one day if one wants to - but I prefer an overnight refrigeration.

Bulk fermentation is usually about 6 hours with 100g of levain. But as always, recipes vary depending on what is trying to be achieved.

In answer to your question about better results: for me personally, I like a higher amount of levain - no idea why, I just do and I like a higher hydration dough, although it’s really hard to work with and can be incredibly frustrating. 

Don’t get stuck on what’s better - ultimately what works for Trevor may not work for you. Your flour, the temperature, skill, etc., all play a role. As much as I love his Champlain SD, it probably isn’t the best recipe to try if you are new at this. There are easier ones to make to be successful. 

Here is Trevor’s response to my email which will answer some of your questions: 

Hi Sharon, probably the best thing to do would be to retard the loaf overnight in the refrigerator after shaping. Then you can just bake it straight from the fridge in the morning. It takes some trial and error to figure out the best timing, but refrigerating loaves is the standard procedure for those who need to work around a schedule. 

 Basically, you just proceed as normal, and then -- after you've shaped the loaf and placed it in the basket -- cover it with plastic and place it in the fridge to rise overnight. You may need to let the loaf sit out for a little while before refrigerating, depending on how fast the dough is moving. I can't really provide any specific time range because there are just too many variables at play. But typically, a loaf can last anywhere from 12-24 hours in the fridge before it overproofs. If you'd like to shorten the bulk fermentation time then you can always proof it at a warmer temperature or increase the amount of starter in the recipe. The 50g called for in the recipe is actually a very small amount of starter. I like it because it allows for a long slow rise, but you could easily double the amount of starter (or even more) to speed up the process. Just be sure to adjust the final water and flour amounts in the recipe to account for the extra starter. 

I hope this helps. Ask away!