Newbie sourdough baker in need of tips
I'm pretty new to baking sourdough and have been able to bake some delicious loaves but I haven't quite figured out how to get a nice tight dough that doesn't spread like a pancake and good oven spring. I've been using a rye starter to bake all of my loaves and have tried different flours from 100% whole grain to plain organic white AP but no matter what the dough spreads like crazy after shaping and I have to score it very fast and get it into the dutch oven before it turns into a pancake. Then during baking I am only able to achieve a minimal lift if any at all.
I feed my starter once a day and it doubles within a few hours, is nice and bubbly and smells like sweet apples. I recently realized I may not be feeding it enough flour and water to maintain at least a 1:1:1 ratio so I'm trying to make sure I do that, but I'm not sure if that was the issue?
I'm also not that great at gluten development yet, I've tried mostly no-knead recipes with a few stretch and fold sessions during bulk fermentation. In my most recent loaves I tried kneading the dough for 10 minutes before bulk fermentation and got a nice stretchy dough but it still ended up with the same issues, dough spreading and almost no oven spring. Any tips on gluten development that may help me?
Also the last thing I'm not sure about is how to tell if to dough is proofed enough or over-proofed. I've done the finger poke test but I'm not sure I really know what I'm looking for. Should the dough double in size before baking? or do I need to leave some of the rise to the oven? I feel like I'd like to see more of a rise out of my dough during final proofing but I'm afraid of over-proofing.
And finally, I'm not quite satisfied with the texture of my crumb yet. Even in my loaves using mostly white AP flour the crumb is denser and gummier than I'd like it to be. I'm really looking to achieve that nice light, airy crumb in a traditional sourdough bread.
All and any advice would be appreciated!
Please reply with the recipe that you typically use. If you can, let us know the approximate temperature of the room your dough ferments in.
Give us as much information that you can. These details will be very helpful.
Dan
Tell us about your starter. If it doubles in 2 hours and you feed it once a day, we need to take a look at that also.
The recipe I've been using is the San Francisco sourdough from this website, but substituting almost 1/3 of the flour with whole grain and using a whole grain rye starter.
250g King Arthur organic white AP flour
100g whole grain flour, have used whole grain spelt and hard red wheat
300g starter (I decreased this to 250 in my last loaf because I didn't have enough)
210g water
10g salt
The hubby likes a cold home so the temp in my kitchen never gets above 70 degrees F if even that, probably colder especially if I'm proofing the dough overnight as we always sleep with AC blasting.
I'd say my starter doubles in approx 8-12 hours after feeding. I usually feed it at night around 8 or 9pm and then when I wake up the next day and leave for work around 8am it is very bubbly and has doubled or is in the process of falling.
What you described does not indicate any issues with your starter. Instead, my guess is that you (a) need to do a better job of developing the gluten during the initial mixing and thereafter via stretch-and fold sessions and (b) could be letting your dough stay too long in the bulk fermentation stage and it is breaking down. (It is possible that you have over-proofed dough too, but that is third in my list of possible issues.)
Go to Breadwerx and watch a couple of Trevor Wilson's videos on mixing the dough. You need to work the dough to create some gluten. (Also, do not omit the autolyse phase, which can do wonders for getting a good start on gluten development.)
The length of time for bulk fermentation depends on a lot of factors, such as the initial dough temperature, the temperature of your kitchen, the amount of starter, and the amount (if any) of commercial yeast. Please include the recipe you are using as well as (and this is important) some detailed information on the steps that you go through in your preparation of the dough.
Keep posting and asking questions. Everyone here is ready and happy to help.
average recipe posted above
I have tried different dough development processes, including a 30 min autolyse followed by two hour bulk fermentation with stretch and folds every half hour and another hour of rest before shaping and into the fridge to retard, with this my dough turned to soup
My best rise came from a lazy overnight sourdough recipe I found on YT where simply did a few stretch and folds in the bowl with a spatula, left the dough covered on the bench for 9 hours, came back in the morning and did another session of stretch and fold, left the dough to rest for an hour, then shaped and into basket for final rise for another hour or so while dutch oven heated up in the oven and then baked at 450 F for 35 minutes cover on, ten minutes off. The rise was good but not as high as I'd like and the crumb was still denser than I'd like.
The last bake I did I kneaded the dough for ten minutes after autolyse, then did four stretch and fold sessions ten minutes apart, then shaped and into banneton for six hours, then baked. The loaves were beautiful and delicious but completely flat.
"I feed my starter once a day and it doubles within a few hours, is nice and bubbly and smells like sweet apples. I recently realized I may not be feeding it enough flour and water to maintain at least a 1:1:1 ratio so I'm trying to make sure I do that, but I'm not sure if that was the issue?"
You feed it once a day, it doubles within a few hours and you realise it's probably not even a 1:1:1 feed.
A well fed starter is a healthy starter. Giving it good feeds and not allowing it to go past it's peak will help build up yeast activity within your starter.
There are probably all of the issues that you have raised (pun intended) in order to 'perfect' your loaf, but I will address only one of them: it chiefly sounds like you are not getting a good rise. A good sourdough started needs to be fed twice per day to be in optimum health. It is at maximum rise just as you see the center of the starter dome begin to collapse back down, and should be used at that point. Feed twice a day to get it up to fighting strength before trying again. And time your recipe to use the starter at its peak. Or use it in an overnight poolish.
A related issue is that you need optimum gluten development in order to hold whatever rise you get. Are you folding the dough enough? Or kneading it too much, (which breaks down the gluten)?
Yes, everything is a balancing act.
BB
I've heard different things about feeding once or twice a day, I'm sure twice is better but I haven't been doing it because I'm always rushing out the door in the mornings and don't get home until 8pm most days, but I suppose if it's that important to me I could find five minutes in the mornings to squeeze in a feed!
Would you recommend feeding every 12 hours or looking for certain characteristics before feeding?