April 1, 2018 - 1:59pm
Sourdough starter smells like alcohol, and bubbles strangely?
I have been maintaining my starter at 50 grams, at a 1:2:2 ratio of starter, AP flour, and water. I feed it daily and everything. I have had starters in the past in the same jar and all, maintained the same, but this time the starter smells like alcohol and the bubbles aren't as deep set (more frothy at the top, sometimes big bubbles sometimes small, but not dispersed throughout). Any idea what could be going wrong?
Thank you!
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And feed it daily then it'll eat through the fresh feed a lot faster than once every 24 hours. An alcoholic smell means it's hungry. Either refrigerate your starter if not using everyday or feed it more often.
I live in Italy and have been using mostly 00 flour. So to 120 g of starter (after discard) I add 60 g 00 and 60 g water. I keep it covered at a 20º to 21ºC temp. I feed once per day. Sometimes it starts to smell like alcohol if I wait more than 24 hours. So, Lechem, I should feed it more (twice/day?) or refrigerate?
How long can it stay refrigerated and unfed? Mine is now 12 days old.
Also, is it now a viable "mother yeast"?
1: does it bubble up predictably?
2: how much does it rise?
3: when risen does it float if you take a little off and drop it in a glass of water?
When your starter does all this it is a viable mother starter. I'd only refrigerate when it passes these three tests. If your starter isn't passing alltp three but it is bubbling up within a few hours and peaking after being fed then switch to feeding twice a day but don't refrigerate just yet. When it does well being fed twice a day and passes all three points then it's ok to refrigerate. When it passes the float test then try a recipe. I'd only refrigerate once it makes good bread though.
It bubbles, always, but never rises. I just did the water test and it floats.
I was told that the no rise is because I use 00 flour. I think I'm hearing from you that it needs to be fed more. Twice per day? Rising is a key factor?
Since day 4 I've been baking bread with the discard.
Also, is temperature of the room a factor?
I think I've understood that gluten IS protein. So does the protein listed in a bag of flour's nutritional info mean also that is how much gluten the flour has?
And what about the 14% protein listed on my bag of buckwheat flour? I thought buckwheat flour had no gluten? I'm confused.
All modern and ancient wheat varieties contain various proteins, two of which form gluten (gliadin and glutenin).
Buckwheat, which isn't wheat at all, has no gluten even though it does have a respectable amount of protein.
On a completely different topic, you might want to adjust the feeding for your starter. Right now, the feedings provide flour that is one half of the weight of the starter being fed (60g flour to 120g of starter). Your starter will go longer between feedings if you were to change to feeding 48g of starter with 96g each of flour and water. The final amount will still be 240g of starter, as it is with your current approach but your starter will be better fed.
Paul
Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I have to get these issues clear in my head so I can master the bread thing. Thanks to all for your patience!
Is there any resource that breaks down the amount of gluten in various flour types?
Does it matter what flour I feed my starter? 00 versus 0 versus whole wheat etc. Why is it necessary to discard half the starter daily?
but perhaps it will offer some help. The page is written very much from a U.S. perspective, so is not as helpful for bakers outside of North America.
I haven't seen a table or chart that indicates gluten content by flour type.
Gluten content isn't quite as important as we sometimes make it out to be. French bakers routinely make spectacular breads with flours that contain modest amounts of gluten. Canadian and U.S. bakers routinely make spectacular breads with flours that contain significant amounts of gluten. And bakers all over the globe make spectacular breads with flours that contain no gluten whatsoever. It's more a matter of understanding and working within the boundaries of what is practical for a given flour.
You probably wouldn't achieve a credible bagel using semolina rimacinata flour. It has a very high protein content but very weak gluten. Nor would it be easy to make a tender pie crust or delicate pastry using a strong Manitoba flour. Each type of flour offers different possibilities. When I moved from the U.S.to South Africa, I had to learn what was and wasn't possible with the flours that are available there. I made good bread while I was there but I had to do some things differently than I would have in the States.
Here are some generalizations that might help answer your question:
- Soft wheats have lower protein content (8%-10%) and form weaker gluten. In the U.S., flour from soft wheat is often labeled as pastry flour.
- Hard wheats have higher protein content (11%-15%) and form stronger gluten. In the U.S., flour from hard wheat is usually labeled as bread flour but might also be labeled as high-gluten flour.
- Durum wheat has a very high protein content, sometimes higher than 16%, but forms very weak gluten. In the U.S., it is usually labeled as semolina flour, a coarser grind, or as extra fancy durum flour, a finer grind similar to the Italian Semolina Rimacinata.
- All purpose flour, as sold in the U.S., is a blend of soft and hard wheat flours. It is similar, although it usually has a somewhat higher protein content, to what is labeled as cake flour in the UK. Here in the U.S., depending on the miller, it might contain anywhere from 9% to 11.5% protein.
So, use the flours that are available to you. Feed any of them to your starter that you please. Make the kinds of breads that are practical with those flours. Adjust hydration levels to produce the dough texture you want or need, based on your flours' absorbency.
Paul
If you're making successful bread with the discard then your starter is fine. If you bake everyday then feed it twice a day. If you don't plan to bake with it everyday then refrigerate it.
Paul is right. Your feeds need to be higher. Better feeds make for healthier starters and it'll take longer to eat through.
Buckwheat has no gluten. It isn't even a grain. Not all protein is gluten but gluten is a protein.
It doesn't matter if you feed it any type of wheat. It might behave differently when it rises and bubbles but it's all food. Wholegrain will be thicker at the same hydration as white flour so may rise more.
You need to discard because if you're feeding it everyday with good feeds and you don't discard then before long you'll have a swimming pool full of the stuff. If you switch to 1:1:1 or higher for a feed now that you have a healthy starter then see how it'll quickly add up if you don't use it or discard...
Day 1 morning: 25g starter + 25g water + 25g flour = 75g starter
Day 1 evening: 75g starter + 75g water + 75g flour = 225g starter
Day 2: 225g starter + 225g water + 225g flour = 675g starter
And so on. In just 1.5days after starting off with just 25g starter and giving it a feed each time of 1:1:1 you've will have over half a kilogrammes of starter.
So either use some each day, discard some with each feed or refrigerate.
Following everyone's fabulous advice and support (I love the freshloaf!!!) I put almost all my starter in the fridge. Tomorrow I'll bake with it and see where I stand.
I added to 100 grams of starter: 100 grams whole wheat flour and 100 grams tap water. (For whatever it's worth it's well water; hope that's not an issue?). I fed this starter at 8 am this morning and it's now almost 8 pm. I have covered it with plastic wrap (lightly) and will leave it countertop all night. The kitchen temperature varies from 19 to 21 C.
Any thoughts?...
Today my starter (and late yesterday) smells like vinegar???
Are you talking about your starter in the fridge, or the one you left on the counter? If it's the one in the fridge, did you feed it prior to putting it in there?