The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Combo Cooker loosing a lot of heat

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Combo Cooker loosing a lot of heat

I’m in the process of baking a bread. The oven was preheated to 500F for over an hour. I checked the temperature before loading the bread (a single loaf) with an infrared gun. I got anywhere from 510 to 525F on the pot and the oven. I loaded the bread, then reduced he heat to 475F, and 20 minutes later came back to remove the cover. Right when I opened the oven door I used the temp gun to check the pot. Both the top and bottom read between 380 and 400F. 

Do you suppose the dough, which was cold retarded, caused such a drop in temperature?

Has anyone else experienced this?

I am considering preheating to 550 and the reducing to 500 when the bread is put into the oven. What do you think? Looking for opinions.

I appreciaate the help I get from all of you. I don’t thank you enough...

Danny

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

This time I preheated to 550F, gun readings on pots showed 560 or so. Put the cold regarded dough in cooker and placed in the oven. Took temp readings a couple of minutes later and got 450. 

Left oven set at 550. Took reading after 10 minutes baking and got 477.

Waited another 10 minutes (right before removing the lid and got 482.

I hadn’t considered the affect of the cold dough on the combo cooker.

I may try my Fibrament stone with a cover and see if the stone retains more heat than the pot.

Dan

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

is probably a good thing. You might find the loaf burning before the inside is cooked if the heat is too high.

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

all the time when baking bread, but admit have never checked oven temperature like you have.  The thermostat does click back on after loading oven but not for long. My stone is one rack below the DO. 

Leslie

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I actually keep 2 baking steels in the oven at all times for heat sinks.

Looks like the cold dough really cools down the cooker.

I’m also considering letting the cold proof warm up a bit before baking. Any thoughts on this?

Dan

HansB's picture
HansB

Dan, is there something about your results that you don't like?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Loaves are turning out ok. But, I’m always looking for better results. I’m thinking that the oven spring may improve if I can keep the temperature higher during the initial bake. What do you think?

Dan

HansB's picture
HansB

Good question. I, like you, start at 500F reducing to 475 and then 450 when uncovered. Lately I have been starting the bake with the bottom of the cooker cold to make loading easier and have not noticed a decrease in oven spring. Please let us know how the higher start temp works.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

baking straight out of the fridge rather than warming up the dough. Why don't you do a trial and see what works better for you? That is how I figured baking right out of the fridge worked better for me.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

if you will use the graniteware roaster you won't have to preheat longer than it takes to get the oven to temp so about 15 min or less and the BIG plus is the thin metal will get HOT and when you put in the cold dough the pan will get hot again quickly. All this heavy  metal get cold fast and then there you are trying to get it hot again . Lots of wasted energy. You can see my current bakes as well as all my others since I have been using the roaster. So much easier on all fronts. Hope you will give it a try. c

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

if you will use the graniteware roaster you won't have to preheat longer than it takes to get the oven to temp so about 15 min or less and the BIG plus is the thin metal will get HOT and when you put in the cold dough the pan will get hot again quickly. All this heavy  metal get cold fast and then there you are trying to get it hot again . Lots of wasted energy. You can see my current bakes as well as all my others since I have been using the roaster. So much easier on all fronts. Hope you will give it a try. c

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

TrailRunner. Sorry, but I’ve not readily accepted your premise that light weight bakeware is better. Maybe I’m wrong, though. My thinking is/was that the heavy cast iron worked as a heat sink. So, once it got hot it tended to hold the heat. My latest infrared temps are causing me to question that.

I own a large (16 x 22”) fibrament stone. I’m going to take your advice (finally) and preheat the stone and use a granite ware cover. Hopefully, I’m wrong and your right. I agressively seek the truth, even when ‘that truth’ proves me wrong. I crave the very best results and I’m willing to change in order to achieve them.

I’ll post my findings once I know them.

Thanks for the help!

Dan

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

new things. Maybe I didn't present it correctly as far as scientific evidence. What I was trying to get across is that a thinner baking pan gets hot faster....500 degrees is after all 500 degrees. The other part of this equation is that the faster the pan heats/cools/re-heats the better especially where your concerns lie in wanting heat to maintain. If you think about the usual baking temps that almost all of us use it is intense heat 500 in my case for 10 min with the lid on and then 475 for 10 min lid on and then 475 for 20 min lid off. Done. At no time do I need or want a " heat sink" as such. I want that pan to be HOT at the  start  and then cooling off some and if it gets lower than the 475 ( I'll test it in April ) I want it to get back up fast which cast iron never will. I want the initial 500 with the now 4 ice cubes and then I want it to start down, which it does by virtue of the cold dough. Then I take away the lid which is less to keep hot and I want the lower temp anyway but if too low I want it to get back up there fast. I can borrow one of those ray gun temp things and see what is what.  Will have to be in April as I am heading to Hawaii for a few weeks. Good Luck and post your results. Danni had great results recently with her graniteware and a batard. Looking forward....c

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I’m kind of like Thomas. You know, doubting Thomas. I listened to what you said, doubted it, then tested your theory. You were right, thanks for persevering... 

I tested the light weight cover theory on the last 4 bakes. 

This morning I put the COLD graniteware cover into an oven preheated to 450F. After being in the oven for 5 minutes I tested the temp with an infrared meter. The cover was 450.

Second bake today. After being in the pre heated (460F) oven for 5 minutes I tested the temp with an infrared meter. The cover was 440.

Another bake test - Pre heat oven and GraniteWare to 500F. Put room temp dough in, oven stone 495 - cover 67 Cover cools down very quickly, nice safety feature. You can handle the cover bare handed and in about 3 minutes. 5 minutes later stone 492, cover 495. 5 minutes later stone 500, cover 500

Yet another bake test - Pre heat oven and GraniteWare to 500F. This time refrigerated cold dough. 5 minutes in to bake stone 500, cover 450. 5 minutes later  stone 498, cover 450. After an elapsed time of 20 minutes stone 518, cover 492.

Caroline, this is a GREAT discovery for me. No heavy cast iron. Recovers heat at sonic speeds. Cools down to touch in minutes. I need to say it again, “You were right, thanks for persevering... ”.

Danny

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

i hope the bread you made doesn’t have large holes.... don’t want the “ crow” to fall out of your sandwich ???? !! I couldn’t be happier for you. Unfortunately you are probably fighting an up hill battle if you want to convince others. They are firmly attached to their cast iron. It has its place. But the same principal hold true with our wok. We have used it for 45 years to stir fry. It is steel... gains heat quickly and cools off quick. Just what you want... never a cast iron wok. Good luck and keep posting. Persevere ?

HansB's picture
HansB

Dan, FYI, I bake using a Lodge Combo Cooker and an Emile Henri cloche side by side and the bread come out identical to each other despite the vast weight difference. https://breadtopia.com/store/emile-henry-bread-cloche/

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

Dan, you had me thinking about the heat loss so I tested my oven.

Preheat 250°c, 2 DOs in there. extra oven thermometer agreed 250°c.

loaded 2 DO, returned them to the oven and watched the extra thermometer plummet! oven element came on and brought temperature back up slowly. opened oven, removed lids of DO after 15 minutes.  Oven temperature was back up but the extra thermometer which was placed between the 2 DOs just never returned to 250°c during this bake.

OK. 2nd batch, only 1 DO needed. Reheated oven, load DO and watch. Temperature dropped again of course. This time I turned the oven to convection and the temperature came up quickly and stayed up.  

I don’t have granite ware or an infrared thermometer so will in future keep oven on convection bake.

I was really surprised at just how much heat the oven had lost.  an interesting  little experiment. thanks Dan and Caroline

Leslie

 

 

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I'll have to try using convection and testing temperatures. Thanks for the tip.

I am a BIG Fan of GraniteWare now. Caroline is on to something... 

Another really great thing about GW is that it cools to touch in about 3 minutes out of the hot oven. A safety feature.

OH, I think it was BikeProf that told me about this. Place one or two ice cubes on the stone and under the cover to generate even more steam. Looks like this helps.

Dan