The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hi everyone

Windischgirl's picture

Hi everyone

Greetings! I just joined the list this AM, but have been a bread baker for a teen, Saturday was my baking day and I worked my way thru "Bread on Bread". After a hiatus of several years (read "grad school" and "career"), I got on the bread machine bandwagon. OK, I admit I still use it for kneading from time to time. But what has really inspired me now were two trips to Switerland--the first by myself in April, and most recently, last month with my family...husband, two teens and a tween. They are all now begging for Swiss bread: the crust and the chew are amazing.

As I was planning what to bake today, I started thinking about my baking great-grand parents owned a bakery in Austria-Hungary, and when my grandfather bought the business, he got both the shop and their eldest daughter ;-) and that was REAL bread, with a real crust, baked in a hearth. So I guess some of my aspirations are hereditary!

I found out about this site thru a series of links as I was trying to find out more info on lames and rising baskets. I appreciated the suggestions on that thread, and I have some ideas of my own to post.

BTW, if anyone has recipes for traditional Swiss breads--other than Zopf, which I have several recipes for already--I'd appreciate you sharing them.

thanks for the welcome!


Paula F

Philadelphia PA 

cynthia dew's picture
cynthia dew

I have surfed the web and come across much information about all bread related matters but the Fresh Loaf is the most interesting and the starter and sponge I made has produced some great bread that gets crunchy when toasted but the only thing is it rose a bit but not as much as I thought it would....but it was still good!

Any reason why sourdough bread shaped into a cob or boule would not rise?

Is it supposed to be flattish?

Would love to hear your comments, tips, suggestions.


pmccool's picture

Tell us as much as you can about the recipe, your techniques, temperatures, etc.  That will give a good basis for making suggestions.


cynthia dew's picture
cynthia dew

The recipe I used was from this site.....the Rustic Bread. I carefully prepared the preferment and pretty much followed the instructions..

It was exciting to see it rise so well. It is very, very hot here in Hong Kong and my kitchen sours dough beautifully.

I folded it a few says 3 times....I think I may have just overdone it but it was really well risen. Then I let it rise in a round deep basket.

When I turned it out on to the tray to bake it spread and as it baked it rose a bit but not rounded as I expected so I had a flat dough...not like in the photo

Something I did not do right or don't know to do...........

Would appreciate tips, suggestions??



Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Folding is a great technique but does make it hard to tell when the bread has doubled.  Easy to over due the rising part.  Did you stretch and fold before it went into the basket?   Try shortening the rise in the basket/banneton by 15 minutes.  Good luck!  -Mini

Jw's picture


I found this site :

Bread types are here :

Only a few recipes:

More here :

If German is a problem: I am willing to translate a few (which I will then try myself as well..).


alabubba's picture
ehanner's picture


As you see, first the German, then the English.


800 g Ruchmehl 800 g Ruchmehl
200 g Vollkorn- oder Grahammehl, fein 200 g of whole grain or Grahammehl, fine
8 dl Wasser 8 dl water
30 g Backhefe 30 g yeast
1 EL Salz (20 g) 1 tablespoon salt (20 g)

Vollkornmehl in eine Schüssel geben und mit 6 dl kaltem Wasser (ca. 20 °C) übergiessen. Whole-wheat flour in a bowl with 6 dl of cold water about 20 ° C) (pour. Gut mischen und ca. 15 Minuten stehen lassen. Mix well and let stand for about 15 minutes. Das Ruchmehl dem flüssigen Teig zufügen, die Backhefe, das Salz sowie das restliche Wasser beigeben und alles zusammen zu einem geschmeidigen Teig kneten. The cause Ruchmehl the liquid dough, yeast, salt, and issued with the remaining water and knead everything together into a smooth dough. Mindestens 120 Minuten stehen lassen. Let stand at least 120 minutes. Dann den Teig zu beliebigen Brotlaiben formen und 20 Minuten gären lassen. Then the dough into any shape loaves and allow to ferment 20 minutes. Backofen auf 240 °C–250 °C vorheizen. Preheat oven to 240 ° C-250 ° C preheat. Nachher die Teiglinge mit Mehl bestäuben, rautenförmig einschneiden und in den Ofen schieben. Afterwards, the dough with flour, cut in diamond shape and place in the oven. Backtemperatur auf 210 °C einstellen. Baking temperature to 210 ° C set.


alabubba's picture

I tried with bablefish, but what exactly is Ruchmehland Vollkorn- oder Grahammehl???

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

calls for #1050 wheat flour without the heavy vollkorn (coarse whole grain) or Gram flour.   Flour #1050 is a high ash flour so my guess is whole wheat bread flour with flecks in it.   Just use a whole kilo.  Now I would hesitate  trying  a new recipe with a whole kilo of flour so I might reduce recipe in half to end up with one loaf.


alabubba's picture

So I would be looking at something like this?



1Kg Whole Wheat Flour (or maybe 800g Whole Wheat flour + 200g bread flour)

800 ml water

30 g yeast

1 tablespoon salt (20 g)


Place Whole-wheat flour in a bowl with 600ml of cold water about 67 ° f)  Mix well and let stand for about 15 minutes.


Add the yeast, salt, the remaining water and knead everything together into a smooth dough. Let rise at least 2 hours. Form the dough into any shape loaves and allow to ferment 20 minutes. Preheat oven to 450 ° f-475 ° f. Afterwards, Dust the dough with flour, cut in diamond shape and place in the oven. Reduce Baking temperature to 410 ° f until done.


ehanner's picture

The yeast in the above recipe is way to high in my opinion. 30g of yeast would be about 10 teaspoons. I would start with 5-6 grams for the first try.


alabubba's picture

2-1/2 tsp

Thats what i wound up using, With the recipe looked like this:

650g Whole Wheat Flour

150 g Rye flour

200 g AP flour

650 ml water (100° f)

2-1/2 tsp yeast

2-1/2 tsp salt

--1 egg for wash--

I made bread bowls with it. Needless to say it was a huge hit.

See my blog for pics.