The Fresh Loaf

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Under or Over Proof?

BethJ's picture
BethJ

Under or Over Proof?

Hi all. 

I'm still working on my 123 Sourdough.  My past bakes have been successful beginning with 100 grams of starter, and dividing the resulting dough in half to bake 2 mini loaves.  I have been shaping and placing the dough in the banneton immediately after coming out of the fridge, where they have proved for 3.5 hours before baking.  I have been quite happy with the results.

I followed the same procedure today for the larger loaves (200 grams of starter), but there is a distinct difference in the crumb.

Could the larger loaves require a longer proof, or should I be looking elsewhere to explain the difference?   In both cases i gave the dough the finger-poke test and was satisfied with the results.

Photos of each for comparison follow:

Smaller Loaves:

Larger loaves:

Any advise is truly appreciated!

 

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Perhaps a more uneven temperature in the dough in the final proof. I'd call them both successes though. 

Have you thought about trying the full bulk ferment at room temperature and then doing the final proof in the fridge? You can bake them straight away from the fridge and that way you'd get a more even dough temperature and a greater oven spring when baked from cold. 

BethJ's picture
BethJ

It's worth a try, although one of the reasons I do the bulk ferment chilled is that the dough is so much easier for me to shape immediately after when it's cold.  Currently my bulk ferment in the fridge is about 10 hours.  I'm wondering if I did it at room temperature, whether I'd need to cut that back any ...

In any case, will continue to experiment and post results!

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

when the dough is aerated, billowy, with noticeable bubbles just beneath the surface and it's silky smooth. Unless you were using very little starter then I'd say 10 hours would be way too long. You can always pop the dough in the fridge to chill before shaping.

Using the 1:2:3 recipe that's 33% starter. 4-6 hours depending on your starter is a good guide but watch the dough and not the clock.

It's a 71% hydration dough providing your starter is 100% hydration. So not too hydrated. You can either chill the dough for an hour before shaping or try to shape at room temperature.

BethJ's picture
BethJ

Here's my typical procedure:  mix the dough, allow for autolyse, add salt and knead for a few minutes.  I then follow with a series of S&F at 30 minute intervals for 3.5 to 4 hours, followed by about  4 hours resting at room temperature.  I then stick it in the fridge overnight for about 10 hours.  I shape the dough in the morning while cold, allow to proof at room temperature for about 3.5 hours, and bake.

I thought what you were suggesting was to leave the dough at room temp overnight, and then proof in the fridge.  Maybe I misunderstood ...

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

And then refrigerate overnight further stretching out the bulk ferment etc. 

Some people do the bulk ferment in the fridge and then final proof at room temperature. Others bulk ferment at room temperature and final proof in the fridge. If I understand you you're doing a full bulk ferment at room temperature, then refrigerating and after which doing the final proof at room temperature. 

At 33% mature starter (the 1:2:3 recipe) the bulk ferment should be completed by 4-6 hours if done at room temperature. You can then shape into the banneton and do the final proof in the fridge. 

The bulk ferments begins as soon as the starter/levain goes into the dough. In that time you develop the gluten. If it's a large amount of starter and a shorter bulk ferment then you'll do the stretch and folds at closer intervals. If it's a small amount of starter and a longer bulk ferment then you can space out the stretch and folds more. Once the dough is aerated, billowy, with noticeable bubbles just beneath the surface and the dough is silky smooth the bulk ferment is done. Shape the dough into the banneton and refrigerate for 8-12 hours (overnight). It should be ready to bake straight from the fridge. 

Wartface's picture
Wartface

After bulk fermentation I degas the dough gently, trying to redistribute the large Co2 gas pockets in the dough. Then I preshape it, bench rest it for 20/30 minutes and then final shape it. I put the dough in the banneton and cover it with a large plastic bag and final proof it on the counter top at about 70°F. If I were going to bake it as soon as the final proofing was complete... I would let it rise to about 1.5 times the size it was going into the banneton after final shaping and then I would do the poke test to determine if the dough was ready to bake or not. I put my dough in the oven based on the poke test, nothing else.

If I decide to put the dough into the fridge with the intent to bake it cold, directly out of the fridge, I pre-final proof it at room temperature, about 70°F, until it has increased in size by about 1.3 times the size it was when I put it in the banneton. Then, knowing it’s slightly under proofed, I put it in the fridge.

The yeast in the dough will go dormant once the interior temperature of the dough is under 40°F. So your dough is going to continue to rise slightly in the fridge while the interior temperature works down from 70°F to under 40°F... finishing the final proofing step in the fridge. However even though your yeast goes to sleep... the enzyme activity is NOT affected by the cold temperature and keeps working converting starch and protein to sugar, enriching the flavor profile of your bread. 

The next day whenever it’s convenient I will preheat my oven and bake the dough right out of the fridge cold.

If I don’t pre-final proof the dough before putting it in the fridge... I will take it out of the fridge and final proof it on my counter top at about 70°F. Once the dough has increased in size 1.5 times the size it was after final shaping, I will start doing the poke test to know when it’s ready to score and bake.

I never go by time... I always go by visual signs. Your dough talks to you all through the bread making process, sign language. Mixing and kneading is done when your dough passes the window pane test. Bulk fermentation is done when your dough doubles in mass, usually. Final shaping is done when there’s so much tension on the skin of the dough you’re worried about tearing it. Final proofing is about done when your dough has increased in size about 1.5 times the size it was after final shaping - time to start the poke test. Your bread Is done baking when your crust is the color you prefer. A light golden brown crust will give you about a 200°F crumb. A darker golden brown crust will give you about a 205°F crumb. A dark brown, not burnt, crust will give you a crumb temperature of about 210/212°F.