The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

follow up to YW debacle...

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

follow up to YW debacle...

I had posted in my blog post about using fresh pineapple peelings with a fair amount of meat on it to feed my YW. You can read that here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/53926/take-care-fresh-pineapple-yw

I lifted out all the pineapple and then shook the YW very well to mix the layer of " mother" that lives on the bottom of my jar back into the YW. I then poured out all of the YW except about 1/3 cup. I fed it with fresh apple pieces and left it on the counter for 4 days. I bubbled happily. I then tossed all that apple and fed it again and left it for 2 days. I took out some of the AYW and fed it last night at 100% hydration and waited a couple hrs and did it again. I left it in the oven with the light on. It was lovely this AM and no sign of deterioration. I then gave it enough flour to  make a stiff starter and waited an hour. It had already doubled and is very healthy with no sign of the dreaded " glop" !  So disaster averted and I have learned an important lesson about YW and pineapple . Hope this prevents anyone else from making an error with their YW and also on how to salvage if you do make an error. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

there is really neglected YW in my fridge that probably needs saving.  Maybe I will make pizza with it.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

i bet there is some great yeast on the bottom. Feed and feed and you'll be back in business in no time. I do think it is like regular starter.... take out a small amount and toss the rest and start feeding fresh. Same principle . Good luck! Love your pizzas 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Couldn't live in Puerto Rico or AZ without it.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I have another pineapple on the counter. I looked up some links but would appreciate tips from you as an expert. Please share how you do it. Thank you dab !  c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

When I saw Daisy do this years ago I thought it was Genius.  I keep mine in the fridge and it gets way better with age.  Put it in anything Hispanic or that needs a kick.  I love it in salsas and Indian Food,  Chutney etc

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/daisy-martinez/spicy-pineapple-vinegar-vinagre-recipe-1948560

MonkeyDaddy's picture
MonkeyDaddy

apothecary jar on top of the fridge (warm spot) with a concoction in it she called Brandied Fruit.  The recipe got passed all over the neighborhood where we lived in the 70's.  Starters were passed around then you fed it every so often with canned fruit and sugar and let it ferment.  I think just before my Mom finally got tired of maintaining it and threw it away it was up to about 100 Proof!  LOL

That stuff was great ladled over vanilla ice cream and I've been waxing nostalgic about my childhood.  TrailRunner gave me some awesome advice about perking up my YW (while SOMEONE was on sabbatical ;-) ) so now I have the DAB and the TR recipes perking away in my fridge.  I was thinking about using some of the extra YW to try firing up my Mom's old recipe and seeing if I could recreate the "good ol' days"

     --Mike

 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

in the 60's my girlfriend's mom had a batch . She fed it with canned fruit cocktail. It was yummy for sure. I feed my YW with apples exclusively. The pineapple was a " once and done" thing !! I also place a large piece of orange peel in my YW when I have it. The fragrance is amazing as is the taste. It keeps the YW fresher longer and there is no problem with the peel. I keep my YW in a quart glass canning jar. When I make my Challah I sub in 1 c YW for one of the 2 c of water called for. It  makes the Challah stay beautifully fresh a lot longer than is typical. I cut the yeast added down to just one tsp . If you make any yeast breads you can do the same with your YW and you will love the product. YW does need a much warmer rising temp so take that into account when using it in any SD or reg yeast breads. Please post back as to how your YW does. c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

YW Primer   behind before taking a break:-)  I still keep my snockered fruit in the fridge for fruitcakes and ice cream but I use Bourbon and dried fruits 

MonkeyDaddy's picture
MonkeyDaddy

Thanks to the both of you.

My in-laws visited the end of July and I had just baked a nice loaf of sourdough before they arrived to have for toast, sandwiches, etc..  But I discovered that my father-in-law actually prefers un-sour bread.  So I figured it was high time to get off the dime and try getting some YW going.  I was following the YW Primer to the letter, and I thought things were going pretty well, but just wasn't sure.  So I posted to the forum with some questions and TrailRunner answered with her expertise and the technique she uses.  She actually answered in two long posts that I compiled into one larger one (mostly for myself, really), but I figured if anyone was searching they'd find all her info in one place that could be easily printed.

It has been a fascinating experiment.  I can see why RonRay spent months trying out all the variables.

The YW recipe that DAB uses has apples and raisins with an occasional touch of honey in a 15oz. peanut butter jar.  It was doing its thing and by around week 3 was consistently having bubbles working their way up through the fruit at a slow but steady rate.  My test levains would double in about 12 hours on the countertop  <-- note this point.  This where I was confounded.  Enter TR with her recipe: she uses apples only (prefers organic Granny Smith) with an occasional orange peel, and no honey or other sugars in a quart canning jar.  She said she leaves the apples in until they sink then replaces them with fresh apples; keeps doing this in the oven with the light on until it "fizzes" then puts it in the fridge until needed.  

So while the TR mix was developing I was still regularly feeding and testing the DAB mix.  With a 3-stage build of the DAB levain I was able to get doubling in about 6-8 hours.  But TR said her levain will triple in 3 hours once the YW is up to full strength, so I remained befuddled.  Toward the end, I actually put the DAB mix in the oven next to the TR mix, just to clear counter space from the heating pad and towels.

After a little while, the TR mix began to have little bubbles migrating up through the fruit, just like the DAB mix, and I thought to myself, "Self, this must've been what she meant by 'fizz'."  So I made a test levain and it took about 4-5 hours to double in the oven next to the two jars.  I figured this was about as good as it was going to get so I put both jars back on the countertop and continued to watch and feed them over the next couple weeks; all the while making mental notes about what the fruit turned into, smells, bubbles, etc..

Then one day, I opened the quart canning jar, and the liquid inside foamed up like it does when you crack the seal on a new bottle of soda pop.  Then it dawned on me, "THAT'S what she meant by fizz!"  So I made a test levain with both cultures and put them in the oven with the light on.  Now that I had two fully developed cultures and I was fermenting them in the recommended warmer temperature, they BOTH tripled in about 2.5 hours.  

TR had mentioned (more than once, I think) that YW requires higher temps to do its thing, and I somehow I missed that for a while, and the colder temperatures were what was killing me.  When I finally followed the directions it worked like a charm.  So I put them both in the fridge and they're hanging out until called for duty.  My A1C hasn't increased, but my spare tire has, so I started on South Beach at around this time.  I'm down by 10 pounds and feeling more perky, but have a few pounds to go.  So my two "dueling yeast waters" are waiting patiently for the next bake.  I'm insanely curious what would happen if I mixed them together...  I will definitely post the results!  :-)  

Take away lessons:

  1. Patience is a virtue.  The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and I should have just been more willing to go with the natural order of things until the cultures were where you each said they'd get to.
  2. I have GOT to stop trying to re-invent the wheel and just do what I'm told - It's a bad habit of mine.  But breadmaking is humbling and is helping me to be better about it. ;-)

Thanks again to both of you!!

     --Mike

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Sounds like you and your YW are now great friends !!  I keep experimenting and found a new detail that really makes using the YW ever so much more reliable as far as rising time....meaning it is better controlled. YW will get ahead of you very easily and you will over-proof in the fridge during retard if you leave your loaves out too long before you retard. So be aware of that. I give them 30 min tops on the counter in their banneton and then plastic bags and in the fridge they go . I don't leave them more than 12 hrs to retard as they will definitely over-proof so I bake the next AM right out of the fridge in 500 degree preheated pots ....turn the oven back to 475 and place the pots with covers back in oven  for 15 min with  lids on and then remove lids and let them go 25 min. more perfect every time.

Now for the best way to use your YW. Make a 100% hydration levain. You can then place it in the fridge and leave it for several days till you are ready to make your bread. No need to warm it up .  Just mix it in with your water. Make another levain with your SD and do a double levain bread. I usually use 100 gr of the YW levain and 166 gr of my reg SD starter made up into a levain. This way you get the best of YW and SD both. Not too sour, faster rising times but not too fast and the lovely addition of tender crumb and much longer lasting freshness than reg SD which stales quickly. Hope this helps with your bakes. Please post back as you experiment. c

MonkeyDaddy's picture
MonkeyDaddy

These are great tips!  I'll put them to use as soon as possible.

     --Mike