The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Using Starter or Leaven?

lina0's picture
lina0

Using Starter or Leaven?

I've been making sourdough mostly based on the Kitchn recipe which says to prepare the leaven using 1 tbsp fed starter with 75 g water and 75 g flour. However I've seen other recipes just calling for a scoop or two (I've seen 1 cup, I've seen 150g) of the starter I've already been feeding daily.

Is there a big difference between these two techniques? And what should the ratio of starter to flour and water be if I want to just use my starter as it is? I've been using a recipe that has about 57% hydration (405 g water, 700 g flour) and that doesn't count what is used to create the leaven.

I'd love to just use my robust starter instead of having to create an offshoot of it and then wait overnight, but I just don't know how much I should be using. 

I'm also a new baker so any advice is useful!

Elsasquerino's picture
Elsasquerino

I keep a 100% hydration starter in the fridge and get it out on Friday night before bed, stir it up add 75g flour (wholewheat in my case) and 75g water then use it in the morning as it peaks, then the little I have left goes straight back in the fridge unless I'm feeling generous then I'll give him an extra little feed first. I find this a very simple technique that seems to work very well for my usual loaves. If however a loaf calls for an all white, spelt, rye etc levain then I will use a tablespoon of my starter to kick-start one of those following the recipes instructions. In essence a starter is a levain but you have to use it when it's ripe and at the hydration the recipe calls for, that's all... People worry too much. I know many here keep a stiff starter and pinch a piece off to create each bakes levain, that way your starter can last a long time in the fridge with little maintenance required. Search 'no muss no fuss' on here if that interests you. 

Starters can sound confusing when you first start out but there's lots of great advice on here and people with a lot more knowledge than I will most likely be along to point you in the right direction but my best advise is don't sweat, you'll find a schedule that suits you... Sourdough is actually easier to fit around your life than baking with commercial yeast, the fridge will become your friend.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

As an off shoot starter and it'll sound less confusing. 

As Elasquerino has said... it all depends on how you use it. If you use a starter as a seed only from which you make a Pre-Ferment building up to the specific requirements of a recipe then you keep a starter and build a leaven. 

Some people use it as two in one. Feed it then use it so you're keeping and using starter. 

Building a leaven has advantages of being able to keep one starter and build off shoot starters which require different flour and/or hydration. It's also good for management for the occasional baker. 

It all depends on your circumstances and what suits you best. 

Tassie Doughboy's picture
Tassie Doughboy

I can tell you that a levain is a starter, levain is just the french word. There is no need to essentially create two levains for your dough, the was most bakeries work is they feed their levain daily however before feeding we would pull off however much we need for a recipe (say 1kg) you can still use this method at home, the day before you bake leave your levain on the bench for a minimum of 12 hours before you use it. Then once you take what you need feed the rest and place it back in the fridge for hibernation. As for the percentage use the same as the recipe calls for.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Who probably bakes the same breads everyday. But for those of us who don't and are trying to do away with building too much and having to discard then how would one go about building different types of starter to different specifications the way you have described if one doesn't build off-shoot starters and use the starter as seed? 

Regularly I build to different flour and hydration. Keeping a little starter in the fridge, taking a little off to build a Pre-Ferment each time and topping the starter back up when it runs low allows me to manage the starter efficiently and build off-shoot starters which won't necessarily be the same as the mother starter. 

If I use starter straight from the fridge, top back up before it goes back into the fridge then when it comes to baking again this might not suit the bread I'm baking and more than likely I'm going to be building too much. Unless I'm a professional baker of course. 

Tassie Doughboy's picture
Tassie Doughboy

Ah sorry, I was more meaning for a straight sourdough sort of situation. When I am doing home baking I keep roughly 500g of stiff levain (I just prefer it over liquid) and when I make a dough I make it to what ever size I need it plus 500. Yes if I were to bake a rye sd and wanted to use a rye levain I would use some of my normal levain to convert it to rye levain.

Most recipes I have found and used just ask for either stiff or liquid levain. Is that what you are meaning by hydration?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I think we're on the same page. Most people here use as you describe. Either the first way because they bake a variety of breads from one starter or the second way for your straight dough description. 

I just think it depends on each individual's needs and how they like to manage their starter. It's accepted on this site that if you keep a seed starter and build off-shoot starters then it's "starter" and "levain" although technically both are the same thing. 

Yes, by hydration I mean stiff to liquid starter. I can use a 50% hydration starter to 125% hydration starter and everything in-between, plus different flour, for many styles of bread with different characteristics. So I find keeping some seed starter and building levains easiest. 

Tassie Doughboy's picture
Tassie Doughboy

Ahh right, I'm on the same page now. The thread makes alot More sense now. Trying to get used to using measurements in a mixture of 1tbsp and grams in the same recipe, seems very weird after just going by weight for so many years.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

A tablespoon of starter won't have a significant impact on the final hydration with everything else measured in grams. But it's probably from a recipe where there has been instructions on how to build a starter and the hydration has already been taken into account. 

But I'm with you 100% when it comes to volume instead of weight. Many non Americans find recipes in volume confusing. You'll see this scenario appearing on these forums.