The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

How do you maintain your starter?

Miwa's picture
Miwa

How do you maintain your starter?

Greetings bread connoisseurs and enthusiasts,

I am curious to know how everyone else maintains their starter. Do you feed 3x a day, with increasing amounts of flour like La Brea Bread Book instructs? Or do you maintain multiple starters, feeding each a different type of flour? Do you keep your bubbly friend in a certain ambient temperature? Is there a secret dance I'm supposed to do that only bread experts share amongst themselves? I would love to know how you guys get your starters lively and happy.

I see pictures/videos of other peoples starters online and see that they are extremely active after 4, sometimes 2 hours after feeding. Mine is a bit sluggish, where in I have to coax it by make-shift proof boxing my oven to ~75F to achieve the same activity at 4 hours. I follow the Tartine method of 1:1:2 of whole wheat f, bread f, and water x2 daily. Also, would love to have the extra large open bubbles in my crumb.

Thank you in advance!

 

Ford's picture
Ford

There are many ways of keeping the starter.  I bake infrequently so I keep my starters in the refrigerator and refresh on a two week schedule.  For 100% hydration: Starter:Water:Flour = 1:1:1 by weight.  I keep about 2 ounces of starter in a closed plastic container.  I discard about half to two thirds each refreshment.  I keep a whole wheat and a white flour starter.  I also keep flakes of dried starter in case disaster strikes.

Ford

Miwa's picture
Miwa

No muss, no fuss, and no excessive waste sounds awesome. Plus so many others are recommending it! Alas, I'm not particular to the sour of sourdough and may have to keep looking for another process.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and the sour will be very mild.  The great thing about NMNF starter besides being maintenance free, no waste and foolproof is that you can make any kind of bread you like with it.  I make everything from SFSD to 100% whole rye bread depending on what I am making.

Arjon's picture
Arjon

so the idea is to find a method that works within your preferences as to how, how often and how much you want to bake. For instance, the NMNF method basically seems to require that every time you bake, you build a levain first which you then put into your dough rather than the single step of putting starter right into your dough. This can probably be seen as either a pro or a con. 

Also, there are other methods that don't create any discard, so the no waste advantage doesn't apply against every other method, just the ones that do create discard.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

If you feed your starter everytime you wish to bake and put some into your dough or take some starter off and feed? A Levain is an offshoot starter? 

Arjon's picture
Arjon

That's kind of my point. The NMNF method tends to be presented as easier because the starter can go for some time without being fed, but what's not stated is that the number of steps isn't reduced. Make levain then make dough is two steps, just not the same two as either make dough then feed starter or feed starter then make dough. 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Making a levain enables one to keep only a small amount of starter, it builds up flavour and one can build "different" starters from it. All the while keeping your main starter with one type of flour and % hydration.

Arjon's picture
Arjon

other methods don't all involve keeping meaningfully larger amounts of starter. For instance, I keep about 150 gm, which fits in a pretty small container (~350 ml with ample room to spare), so while I could use an even smaller one if I only had 20 gm, this is effectively meaningless in practice. I've never been remotely close enough to lacking storage space so badly that I needed to replace a 350 ml container with something smaller.  

NMNF isn't the only method that allows using bits to build different starters while still keeping the original as is. So where's the advantage?

Note that I'm not suggesting anyone not use NMNF, just saying that it's not necessarily the best method for everyone, 

Rajan Shankara's picture
Rajan Shankara

mic drop 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

But Dabrownman's method works for me

No Muss No Fuss all the way!

inumeridiieri's picture
inumeridiieri

Maybe I'll use the method Josep Pascual...I'm already using. Always in the fridge and feed every day 100% starter 12,5% flour 12,5% water and immediately in the fridge. No waste ... you can use 1: 1 with flour :-)

Gaetano

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

This is great method. I have worked with Josep Pascual during 4 years. 99% of the things that I know about baking I learned from him. This is a good system to get healthy bread, no sourness and no waste.

inumeridiieri's picture
inumeridiieri

No sourness...it's unbelievable, always in the fridge/little feed but no sourness :-)

Gaetano

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

I always suggest my students to use this system.

Miwa's picture
Miwa

No sourness!? You have my attention. Do you have to take it out of the fridge and "wake it up" before using for baking? Would you happen to be able to link me to a website with his method? 

Thanks!

inumeridiieri's picture
inumeridiieri

Out of the fridge, wait 30minutes and it's ready :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QzzP0XryTI

I hope I can be of help

Gaetano

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

When I don't want sour I just use yeast water.

Miwa's picture
Miwa

That kinda defeats the purpose of going all-natural. As I'm sure already know, there's also the added benefit of wild yeast & bacteria breaking down the starches and proteins making the bread more digestible. No sour/ less sour is simply a preference of taste for myself and the people I bake for. That's like asking why this Josep Pascual baker bothers to make sourdough if his bread isn't sour.

sallam's picture
sallam

This a very interesting method. Can you please tell me the steps in more details? for example :

- How much starter do you start with? what is the initial weight of the ingredients? and do you keep it in room temperature in the first mix ? and when do you put it in the fridge?

- after how many days it would be ready to use?

- do you take from it for baking and keep feeding the rest in the fridge?

- since it has not sour taste, what flavor profile does it have ?

- how much flour and water do you feed it everyday ?

SlekkerBread's picture
SlekkerBread

I read you have to wait to start the activity for 2 hours before retuning it to fridge, so that's what I do. Buffy (my starter) seems to like that, and continues to grow in fridge (slowly).

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

works brilliantly. I keep a small quantity, don't need to discard and refresh about once a month.

Leslie

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

which is working brilliantly for me!

I just have the one starter, which is 100% freshly milled rye, kept at 67% hydration in the fridge.  For a bake, I take 6g out and use the 3-stage build up to 160g levain that dabrownman details in the post that he linked.  I don't worry about keeping a starter for other flour types, since the less than 4g of rye in the levain will end up being less than 1% of the overall flour and won't impact the flavour at that level.

My house is pretty cool (68-70 at most) during the fall / winter / spring, and the starter is pretty sluggish to wake up at those temps, so I use 90 - 95 degree warmed water for the feeds, heat up a cup of water in the microwave to get it slightly warmed and steamy in there, and let the levain grow in there.  Under normal barometric conditions, this will give me just about a doubling in 4 hours after the first feed, doubling in less than 3 hours after the second feed, and doubling again in less than 3 hours after the 3rd feed.  If I keep it just at room temperature, then it takes 5 or 6 hours to double after the second feed, and the same after the 3rd feed.  I'm learning to use the different timing at different temps to better plan my day when getting ready for a bake (but still need a lot more practice)!

No frequent "feeding" necessary for the base, but it'll be down to the bottom 10g after next week, so I'll re-build it back up to 100g and just keep on goin'...

hanseata's picture
hanseata

A  whole wheat starter (75%) as default for most of the sourdough breads I sell, a whole rye starter (100%) and a kefir based 1/2 bread flour/1/2 whole wheat starter (100%) for Tartine breads and the like. I would need only the WW starter, the others are for fun.

I feed them only as needed, when they are almost used up or a day before I intend to use them, and keep them in the refrigerator all the time.

I also keep a portion of old dough for several months in the fridge, that I refresh before I use it in some rolls or breads (and then retain the a portion for the next batch.)

Karin

bread1965's picture
bread1965

As with all things in life, there's always a different way..

I bake in fits and starts. It's usually on the weekend but not every weekend. In the past life would get in my way and I would just neglect feeding my starter. I'd sometimes go a month before using it, and was surprised at how resilient it was. A feeding or two at the most and it was pretty active again.

So now I keep a single white starter in the fridge - charlie. he's a little guy - only about 85 grams soaking wet when fully fed. After he's fully fed, I just leave him in the fridge and take out a bit at a time and build up.  When I get down to only about 10grams of Charlie left in the jar, I feed him 1:5:4 - 10grams Charlie, 50 grams white unbleached flour, 40 grams water.. He's always in the same jar, I've weighed it empty and clean and so I weigh him and the jar all in when he gets pretty small. After feeding 1:5:4 I leave it on the counter for about two hours and then put it back in the fridge.. it will invariably rise in the jar and fall back down over the course of a day or two while in the fridge. And I leave him there. When I need to bake, I'll pull out 5 grams and feed it 1:2:2 with white or whole wheat depending on what I'm after. I'll do that say Thursday night. Friday morning I'll take that total 25 grams and feed it 1:2:2 to get to a total of 125grams by Friday night, and either use it that night for a bread and bake on Saturday, or keep building and use it Saturday morning if I need more. Nothing gets wasted. It's not overtly sour in any way. I might get some hooch after a few weeks, but I just drain it and keep moving forward. It's simple and works for me. My breads seem to turn out fine..

You'll have to find what works for you..

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

but nine of them require any maintenance.  3 YW starters -  2 fig and 1 apple  They go for half a year in the fridge no worries but 2 hove to go.  I have a whole grain wheat NMNF starter that I have to see how it works since so many Freah Loafians are using a wheat one,  Then I have my rye NMNF starter that use for most of Lucy's breads from white to 100% rye and the wheat one has to go.

aroma's picture
aroma

No Fuss starter.  Mine is so potent that I just put 6g into a 20% sponge and leave it overnight on the worktop.  By morning it is going like the clappers.  I remake the starter when I get down to the last 10g or so - but that takes several weeks.

dorkette's picture
dorkette

I only bake occasionally, maybe twice a month, maybe less, so there is absolutely no way I'm doing daily refreshments and discards. I used to do a 100% hydration starter, stored in the fridge, but I've switched to an old dough method for my standard loaf and have found tweaks that work for me. I save maybe a spoonful or two (up to 30mL or 2 tablespoons) of the finished dough (complete with ~1.8% salt) and store that in the fridge. Compared to the starter, the stiffer dough seems to keep better for me especially when I go a month without baking.

Notes: my standard bread is ~35% whole wheat (Canadian) bread flour, ~5% whole rye flour, rest unbleached (again Canadian) bread flour; levain, then dough, approximately 80% hydration, cold oven start, baked in pyrex -- covered, then uncovered half way.

The photo is of my most recent loaf (one of my best yet!)

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

I have been using the Josep Pascual method the last four years. I suggest this method to all my students. It's easy. You get a very mild sourdough. You can use this sourdough in a very high dosis. Very lactic sourdough. It's easy to manage and store. As long as you use a very big part of starter and a small quantity of feed, it's ready to use in 30m-1h since the moment you feed it. It's very interesnting in terms of production. Imagine you are in your bakery and someone orders you bread. You cannot tell your costumers you cannot do bread because you don't have sourdough. If I want to make my sourdough very sour, I have several methods to achieve it, getting one part of my Josep Pascual starter and feeding it in another way (changing ratio starter-feed, time and temperature).

Arjon's picture
Arjon

Does the method work with whole wheat, rye, etc., or just with white? 

And does the starter remain viable if you don't bake every day, like once a week for example?

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

Best results are with T80 wheat stoneground flour. 1,2 parts of water per 1 part of flour. You can also feed with T65 wheat flour (then equal parts of water and flour).

You should feed your sourdough everyday, even you don't make bread. Just 2 parts of feed per 8 parts of starter. Just remove from the fridge, feed, and store again in the fridge. If you don't feed it in two or more days, just feed it several times (3 times in 3 hours) and it's ready.

 

Carolina's picture
Carolina

I love what you are suggesting because I don't like my bread to be too sour.  How do I find out how to build and then feed/maintain my starter/levain using the Josep Pascual method?  I have watched the youtube video but there was no instruction.  I make my bread with a liquid starter which is kept in the fridge but it can get very sour.  At the moment I am only baking once a week but I want to start a micro bakery soon and will be baking more often.

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

Hi Carolina. The method is just the oposite that you would make. You usually feed your starter following the ratio 1:1:1, or 1:3:3, or 1:10:10. Then you got to wait between 3 to 12 hours until the sourdough is ripe and ready to bake.

This system is just the opposite. You use a high amount of starter, and you feed with little water and flour, so the sourdough is ripe and mature to use in 30 minutes aprox. The regular ratio is 8 parts of starter (800 grams, for example) 1 part of stoneground flour and 1 part of water. You will notice that it's ready to use when you see some foam on the surface and eventualy floats if you make the floating test. This sourdough is very mild, so you can use more quantity than usual and no fear, bread will have a very mild sourness.

Carolina's picture
Carolina

Thanks for the reply. I understand that you are saying to use a larger amount of starter in the dough but should I make my starter that I keep in the fridge (the mother) into a stiff starter or is it ok to leave it at 100% hydration?

Mealworm's picture
Mealworm

Carolina, I've been using this system for awhile and found the bread to be much less sour. I keep starter in refrig and feed once daily. (80% starter and 10% each flour and water) (100% hydration) However, after removing from refrig for baking, mine takes much longer than 30 minutes to get bubbly and ready to use. Thanks to Abel for letting us know about this method.

Abelbreadgallery's picture
Abelbreadgallery

It's good to refresh your starter once it's tempered. I remove the starter from the fridge and place close to the oven, or any hot place. Then I refresh with stoneground flour and warm water. When it's mature I use it. Then I feed again, I let ferment 30 minutes and keep in the fridge. Next day, if it's foamy and it floats, I can use directly from the fridge.

SlekkerBread's picture
SlekkerBread

My starter is a year old next month.

I leave a mother starter in the fridge, feeding once every 7-10 days, then create a baby starter to bake with on the counter. My feeding is 100g starter, 100 g flour (30% teff flour, 70% APF) and 70 g water. A stiffer starter gives a more sour dough. If I'm not baking every day, I still feed the baby starter once per day at about the same time. My starter is crazy-active and strong, but if anything goes wrong with the bAby, I just make a new one from the mother and get it ready after 2-3 feedings.

sallam's picture
sallam

Sorry for interrupting, but how do I unfollow a topic please ?