starter troubleshooting help
I made my own starter and have been making bread since January. At first things were going really well considering I'm a beginner - nice color, great flavor, chewy crust with a soft almost creamy crumb with good holes. I wasn't getting the oven spring that I wanted and thought the problem was the way I was proofing &/or baking the bread.
Now I realize I may have problems with proofing/baking but I think the big problem was my starter. I thought my starter was in good shape because it was very bubbly with a pleasant sour smell. Then I read a post on this site that talked about how your starter is supposed to rise and be able to double. Mine wasn't doing that ( don't think it ever did). For about a week I tried to revive it following the instructions from a post on this site but it wasn't rising at all. So I ended up throwing it away and am starting a new one. I think I somehow killed off the yeast yet kept the good bacteria alive. I'm hoping someone can offer some clues on what the problem was so I can avoid repeating my mistakes.
It was made with all purpose flour. I kept it in the fridge (not sure what the temp is in there) and used it between 1 and 2 times a week. I had about 2 cups of starter. At first I was making a recipe that used 1 cup of starter so I was using and replacing by volume and replacing about 1/2 my starter each time. My starter was the consistency of pancake batter. Then I learned about and started making recipes that weighed everything. For whatever reasons these recipes also used a lot less starter between 10g - 50g. I started feeding my starter by weight and at 100% hydration. My starter did thicken up so originally even though it was leavening my bread I think it was probably over 100% hydration. I let it sit at room temperature (69 - 72 F) for an hour or two after feeding. I only fed enough to replace what I took but once I started needing less I reduced the amount from 2 cups to a little over a cup. I also only fed when I was getting ready to use but I was using once sometimes twice a week. I used warm filtered water. I did not take the temp of the water I was using to feed. But I did finger test and it was not hot but definitely hotter than room temp. Maybe too hot for yeast? I kept it in a plastic container which did need to be burped or maybe burping it was one of my mistakes? From the way my breads were rising I'm thinking my yeast levels were ok but never great even from the start. My good bacteria levels were consistent from the start all the way to the end.
So I'm starting over but hoping someone can offer suggestions on where I may have gone wrong so I don't repeat my mistakes.
Thanks,
Ann
Explain how you used a starter in a recipe.
If an example recipe is...
500g bread flour
300g water
10g salt
150g mature starter @ 100% hydration
How wouldn't know go about preparing your starter to use in the recipe?
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the first recipe was
1 cup fed starter
3 cups all purpose flour
1 1/2 cups lukewarm water
room temp 4 hours refrigerate for 12 then add
2 cups all purpose flour
1 T sugar
2 1/4 t salt
rise, shape and bake
Then I used multiple by weight recipes but the one I made most often was
52g fed 100% hydration starter
875g water
562g all purpose flour
562g bread flour
150g whole wheat flour
Mix let six 6 hours then add
25g salt mixed into 50g water
After feeding and sitting on the counter my starter was not rising so I'm thinking my problems were with how I was maintaining my starter before I ever got to the recipes?
Have you made another starter yet?
When using a starter you'd typically feed it, allow it to rise and peak then use in a recipe. That's one way. Another way is to keep a little starter in the fridge and take some off to build a Levain with. So you'd feed it with flour and water, allow it to rise and peak then use in the recipe. Once your starter in the fridge runs low then you'd feed it to top it up. But whichever way, your starter should be active and bubbly when it goes into your recipe.
I'm thinking once you've made your new starter a simpler recipe is needed. A plain bread flour with a Levain build.
yes I am on day 3 of a new starter. It is starting to get bubbly but not rising yet. I am hoping to avoid whatever I did wrong the last time. I thought my last starter was active because it was very bubbly and created enough gas that it domed the lid on the container it was in. The issue was with rising. Maybe it did rise some in the beginning, not sure but I know it didn't rise at the end. In the beginning my bread would rise maybe not as much as the beautiful pictures I see from others but it did rise. In the end my bread barely rose.
I'm thinking I did something to kill off the yeast without harming the bacteria. Does that make sense that I could do that? If it does make sense do you know what may have caused that to happen?
Thanks for helping
1. Days 1-3 : you'll see a quick burst of activity. This is a false start.
2. Days 4-6 (or possible longer) : the starter seems to go dead. All goes quiet. This is very normal.
3. Day 7 and onwards : starter reawakens and gets stronger with each feed.
The first stage is from bad bacteria. They are very quick.
The second stage the bad bacteria die off, the starter is becoming acidic which makes a good environment for the yeasts and good bacteria.
The third stage is the starter maturing and the good bacteria and yeasts populate the starter enough to leaven bread.
The trick is to feed regularly till the first stage is over. Then to slow the feedings down in the second stage. Feeding too much prevents the starter from becoming acidic slowing the process down. Feed when you see activity! After which one carries on with regular feeds to strengthen the starter.
Make the starter a thick paste. Include wholegrain flour. Keep warm. Just stir when all goes quiet.
I'm wondering if you took your starter all the way to the mature stage. It can take up to two weeks if conditions and feedings aren't just right.
Thank you this helps a lot. The first time I used pineapple juice but no whole grains and I sort of remember using it after a week. So it probably wasn't mature enough.
The directions I'm using this time from a post on this site just use flour and water. Rye day one and then all purpose after that. But the timetable says it should double by day 3-4 and able to use by day 6. So I was starting to get a little concerned. Now I won't panic if all goes quiet in a day or so.
A few questions-
Day 1, 2 and 3 (today) I've only fed once was that enough?
Now it is very bubbly. If it still is bubbly tomorrow am I still in stage 1 or does stage 2 always start on day 4?
I included wholegrain (rye) just on day 1. Is that enough?
Thanks for your insights.
a starter. It can be lowered later when stronger. Get it up to at least 75°F.
Yes, it is possible to get a starter chock full of bacteria, so much so that yeast is suppressed, not dead, just living at low numbers not enough to raise bread. Bacteria can also raise bread to some degree. Feeding a starter and not waiting for it to show rising, often done by keeping it cold and immediately storing after feeding into the fridge can lead to high lopsided starter also not feeding enough flour to stimulate yeast growth when warmed up. With both of these it's a double whammy on the yeast population.
Ah, that explains what was happening. I'll find a way to keep this one warmer and hopefully things will go better. Thanks so much.