Progress, With An Issue
Hello all, it's been a while. I've been working, had a trip to Cuba so I could turn my head off and reset myself, and forget about life and the world, and also been dealing with some real life things.
I've been baking a fair bit and have been very consistent in my results, even with some flour consistency challenges, and one abject failure even after several attempts (more on that below).
These are sister loaves I baked this morning, done with my now standard 1:2:3.
For some reason, I've had flours that seemed slack at 65% hydration and some that feel tight at ~71% (1:2:3 recipe), so for consistency I'm sticking with Robin Hood white all-purpose unbleached.
I've tried several different breads, with my 2 best successes being Danielle's cranberry/walnut, which Da Warden and our daughter threatened me if I didn't stop baking it because they were eating so much of it, and a Parmesan/black pepper/onion loaf, both delicious. On to the failure I mentioned above, that was Trevor J's Peasant Loaf, with 33% whole grain and a hydration of 80%. Now, both my white and WW flours are Robin Hood, with Rye and Spelt being Anita's from Canada's west coast, so all reasonable quality flours. Water is the same for everything I make, and the same mother starter. 80% was like batter, 75% wasn't much better, 70% was somewhat workable and very tasty, but a damned ugly loaf (I didn't think even the gulls and crows would eat it). At 65%, it was somewhat reasonable but not nearly the height and spring one would expect. The main issue seems to be that the dough relaxes too much during fermentation and proofing. I can get a nice taught ball when stretching & folding, but in 30 mins or an hour, it's slack again (at all hydrations). When pre- and shaping, I use Trevor's method with the bench knife and can get a fairly tight ball, but I can actually stand back and watch it quickly flatten (again, at all hydrations). As a note, the slackening and flattening gets worse the longer it is from initial mix.
While I understand there are differences with absorption qualities, protein and gluten content, workability, etc, of whole grain flours compared to white, is this normal what I'm experiencing? If not, any suggestions?
Jamie
...but ran in to a similar issue when trying out a version of his 50% whole wheat formula. When it started losing tension immediately when pre-shaping, I decided that instead of being frustrated and fighting with it, that it should have a "time-out" in the fridge, and I should have one with a glass of wine... It went in to the fridge essentially as more bulk ferment (since it really had no shape) for the night, and worked much more easily the next morning --- held the pre-shape and final shape tension and baked as a free-standing batard with good oven-spring and great flavour.
I came to the conclusion that I simply hadn't developed the gluten enough during the initial mix (I need a lot more practice with technique), that my starter had been added before it had peaked, and that my rather cool kitchen temps had slowed the development even more. All it really needed was more gluten, and the time to develop it.
You might want to consider that your house temps and humidity might be both increasing the actual hydration of the dough, as well as affecting the development of the gluten. You might also want to check that rye flour to see whether it is whole, dark, medium, or light since they each work best with different hydration levels. I've pretty much given up on treating Rogers' dark rye with a "whole grain" hydration level (it seems to be best around 65% or lower), and only go up on hydration when using freshly milled whole rye kernels.
Your 1-2-3 loaves look fabulous, and your success with Danielle's cranberry walnut formula speaks to your skill levels, so I'd have to think that the rye flour and your home temperature / humidity might be causing you the issues.
Good luck in figuring it out - and enjoy the experimenting! I find even the "failures" taste great, and that's what I bake for - and it's all good experience...
I have started giving my breads a two hour autolyse if I can find the time for it and I find that it really helps with the gluten development. I do a minimum of an hour if I can't do 2 hours.
Secondly, The autolyse is done with just enough water to get the flour wet. I sometimes have to work pretty hard to get it all mixed but I definitely keep the dough on the drier side.
When it comes to adding the salt and the levain, I really work the dough through pinching and folding to continue the gluten development. I mix by hand so sometimes I will take a short break and come back to it.
It is also at this point that I add enough water so that the dough feels like my earlobe (a trick I learned in that baking class). My hydration usually ends up in the 78% area and I use similar flours to you (Although I prefer the Rogers no additives unbleached to the unbleached Robin Hood because RH has ADA in it and I like to stay away from stuff that doesn't need to be in there).
When I do my folds for the first 2 hours, I don't just do 4-5 folds and call it good enough, I keep folding until the dough tightens up enough that I cant do another fold.
At shaping time, I do a preshape either by doing the envelope method or by pulling on the dough's edge and folding it in the middle. I really pull on those edges. I let rest for 15 or so minutes and then redo the shaping. Then I flip the dough seam down and do the Forkish pull which really degasses the dough. I used to be all about keeping all the gass possible in the dough and now it is all about getting those big bubbles out of there. I think it was Mini Oven who convinced me to do this. I then get a really nice right boule that holds its shape through proofing.
I love how Trevor does his shaping but I can't get the skin tight enough on the boule with the bench knife. An advantage of his method is that he barely uses any bench flour where I liberally dust my surface with it.
Oh dear, I didn't mean to write a book here but maybe something in there will help.