January 20, 2017 - 4:22pm
Loaf autopsy - what went wrong?
I've done about 6 loaves prior to this, 3 of which came out around the same quality as these but with better shaping.
Method was the basic country bread taken from Tartine Bread.
Ingredients
- 50/50 flour mix - white/whole wheat (for starter).
- 900g white flour.
- 100g whole wheat flour.
- 700g + 50G water @ 78F/25.5C water.
- 20g finely ground Himalayan salt.
Starter:
- Born 11/01/17, left for 2 days. Began feeding 13/01/17. Used starter for leaven 18/01/17.
- Fed with 50/50 white/whole wheat mix.
- Looked bubbly and smelled acidy/fruity/slightly sweet and creamy.
- Tartine just said to put in flour and water to make thick batter, so that's what I did.
Leaven
- 1 tablespoon starter.
- 200g @ 78F/25.5C water.
- 200g 50/50 bread mix.
- Put in fridge @ 00:30, took our fridge @ 07:30, began next stage @ 18:00. I may have messed this part up, but had to extend this part due to my working schedule. Is this a potential flaw? I took it out the fridge at that point as the heating in my house comes on so the room is fairly warm to help with fermentation.
Dough
- Mixed 200g leaven + 1000g flour (900g white, 100g whole wheat)
- Rested for 40 minutes.
- Added salt + 50g warm water.
- Squeeze nicely to incorporate then folded dough over itself and transferred to see through container.
Bulk Fermentation
- Began at 19:05 and ended at 21:13. (4 turns @ 30 min intervals)
Shaping
- Used new large wooden chopping board and bench knife.
- Big flaw here - the new chopping board is not as dough friendly as I'd hoped. The dough kept sticking and bits of the dough tearing off and attaching to the board.
- Bench rest for 30 mins.
- Both loaves were flatter than I'm used to seeing, so the bad shaping likely played a part here.
- 22:31 - final shaping. I moved the dough off the wooden board onto the kitchen surface which was much easier to shape with.
- I shaped by stretching each side over itself to form a package before pulling the dough towards me to create tension.
- First loaf shaping wasn't that easy and the dough didn't feel as stretchy. It was difficult to create tension.
- Shaping on the second, larger loaf (even though they were fairly equal in size originally) was easier and I did see some bubbles created on the surface as well as feel some tension develop.
Final rise/bake
- 22:36 - both loaves in bannetons, covered with towels and placed in the fridge.
- 05:45 - oven on @ 464F/240C (highest my oven goes).
- Heated dutch oven with lid for 20 mins.
- Slashed dough with lame - tried to do a square on top. The dough was very difficult to cut and just seemed to make a mess, sending the dough in all directions. It was becoming flatter and flatter also.
- Cooked for 20 mins @ 450F/232C with lid on, then lid off for another 25 minutes.
- Bread was between 212F-239F/100C-115C.
Main points I think I messed up on:
- Leaven - possibly left too long? I've not seen this done before, just thought it made sense. I was treating it a bit like a starter but with less time in warm temperature.
- Bulk fermentation - I was confused as Tartine says 3 - 4 hours to bulk. It says to turn every 30 minutes for the first 2 hours but then doesn't say whether to continue with turning after that.
- Shaping - the chopping board incident was tragic.
- Scoring - most difficult I've had to score with which is why the crust looks so hilarious. It felt impossible to get a straight line. It just kept reshaping parts of the dough and twisting it around. I've never had a razor blade feel so blunt (I've only used it twice before and it's clean).
- Temperature - ambient temperature wasn't monitored.
Any help at all on the above would be great. I've obviously outlined what I believe to be the issues but some feedback would be really useful and help for the next bake.
I've included some photos so you can see the loaves. The actual taste was alright, although when toasted it was very slightly stodgier than I'd have liked it to be. I haven't tried the second loaf yet so that may be better.
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....is my guess. I don't know how long you've been baking, you said 6 loaves and I don't know if you meant 6 of Tartine or 6 total.
Me, being a noob, only started baking sourdough a few months ago, I feel your pain. I struggled bad with anything over 67% hydration, and a bit of WW only made things worse. The loaf you're doing is 75%, or 77.3% depending on math method, and is tough to work with.
Two things I did that helped me work with higher hydration dough. First I experimented with VWG (vital wheat gluten) and was adding as much as 5%. It gave me a nice strong gluten development and was nice to shape. As my skills improved, I gradually lowered the amount of VWG. The other thing I did was watch Trevor J. Wilson's videos on YouTube (which maybe you've done) and his method of shaping with a bench knife is amazing and fairly easy to get used to.
Now, some of the fine people here convinced me early to stick with 65% and I got some lovely results. I saw the higher hydration as a challenge to my shaping skills.
It's possible your issue may be flour. Different flours act different; different gluten content and absorption qualities. My normal flour is 12% protein. Recently I did a test with "bulk store" bread flour @ 13% protein, and I swear I could have used the dough as a bowling ball after the 2nd S&F. It was that solid with gluten.
So, if I may, (if you haven't already) try 65% for a few loaves and gradually move up if you wish. I can say it worked for me and gave me some confidence.
Jamie
Your leaven wasn't ready. Leave it at room temperature over night. It should be very bubbly, as in it should increase very noticeably in volume in a container such as a mason jar (at least 2 inches in a mason jar). Those bubbles are the indicator.
Side note: SOME of your shaping is noticeably bad, but that is not the cause of the interior problem. Also your slashing is bad. I say this just to confirm what you've already supposed. It's far easier to slash if the dough is cold. Dough takes time to cool in a fridge.
Practice: you're a rookie, which is fine. A mistake I see here often is people blaming the dough for being impossible to shape. It's not the dough; it's you. It really does take practice. I say this not as an indictment, but rather to confirm that yes, the dough is supposed to be (absurdly) slack and fluid. It is possible to shape it.
Here's another tip: dough sticks to every surface and everybody's hands. There is a way to not let it bother you and to keep the dough sticking to itself and minimize the amount on your hands. But really it just takes practice. That's part of the fun. Have fun!
Do you have a pointer to an explanation of a technique to keep the dough from sticking? I suspect that my dough is way too wet and underdeveloped, but I find that it sticks to my hands and to the bench knife when attempting to shape it, and I'm not sure whether I need a coating of flour, or maybe water, or even oil to deal with it.
Use a bit of flour. I can't explain it in any enlightening way. Dough always sticks. Really the trick is to not be touching the dough for very long. Quickish movements. Watch those videos again with that in mind and you might see it. Then again, you might not see it. Practice is the only way.
Thank you both for your honest and informative replies. I've actually watched one of Trevor J. Wilson's videos on youtube before, but will go back now to try and learn more about shaping.
This is the first time I've done tartine. This is what I followed before - http://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-sourdough-bread-224367
Starting with a lower hydration sounds like a good idea. I think I'll drop down to 65% next time and sit there until I'm happy with my results.
This is the flour I used:
http://flour.co.uk/view/strong-organic-white
http://flour.co.uk/view/organic-strong-stoneground-wholemeal
As for the leaven, I did leave it through the day in a warm room from 07:30 - 18:00 after leaving it overnight in the fridge. Can this stage be extended like this? Or would you suggest I simply wake up earlier and get the leaven ready to sit out during the day from 06:00 - 18:00?
Do you have any advice, or can point me in the direction of some, for scoring? I know practice makes perfect but having the practice on the final stage of the loaf is life or death. Maybe I will get some basic flour from the shop and make up batches of say, 50,60,70% etc and then just practice scoring.
I leave a ripe starter in the fridge all the time. Perfectly fine. I took a picture of mine to share but I can't upload it from my phone so I will post it later if I don't forget.
Here it is, upside down.
Scoring is really a piece of cake if you have a sharp enough razor. It's a razor: the cutting motion is the same one you avoid at all costs when shaving. Razors make slits; they don't go deep, they aren't sturdy, and they aren't serrated. It's just a tool to get used to. Quick motions and move your whole arm is the only trick I know.
Just to add to the good advice already given... your starter will continue to mature, strengthen and become more predictable over the next month. Keep on feeding and baking with it (all the while taking on board the advice given above) and you'll find your starter will continue to improve after which you can think about keeping it in the fridge.
Man, I seem to be repeating myself a lot the last couple of days, as a lot of people are posting the same problem! There are a lot of recipes that are popular now that depend mostly on long cool fermentation to develop gluten, rather than a longer period of mixing. I've had the same problem as other people have with this method - the wet dough is very sticky if the gluten is not well-developed. No two ways about that.
Now I'm experimenting with a longer mixing, using my stand mixer. I've gone to the extreme (a la Daniel Leader's method following many of the artisan bakers in Europe) of mixing a wet dough at high speed for 18 minutes. I was amazed at the difference in the dough. I'll be cutting back on this, probably mixing at speed 4 until the dough starts to clear the sides of the bowl. At this point, I let the dough bulk ferment, with a couple of stretch and folds to check the tension and development of the gluten. The dough is so much easier to handle and shape after the bulk ferment. It really does handle the way it looks in those videos! It is tacky but not sticky, even though it's still very soft.
Works for me, anyway!