The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Help with larger batches of dough

craigw9292's picture
craigw9292

Help with larger batches of dough

Hello :)

I'm having a lot of success with a simple 65% hydration recipe and AP flour.

I use 500g of flour but I'd like to make bigger batches so I can get 3-4 loaves.

When I double/triple the ingredients something changes and my loaves don't rise the same way, 1/3 will be great the other 2 loaves are small.

I of course increase my water to keep the 65% ratio, only difference is when adding my salt/water I don't increase that, I rather increase water in the beginning because trying to pinch/work salty water in above 50g is difficult.

I also increased the amount of Leaven but for example two loaves I didn't double it, I did 75%. The last time I doubled the leaven the dough was impossible to work and was rising too much.l

Thanks

 

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

I guess I am wondering why you do not adhere to the same baker's percentages as you scale your total dough up or down? Are you saying that you do not increase the salt as you increase your other ingredients... same with the levain? These changes will have rather profound effects on your end product I'm sure.

If physically working the dough is difficult for you, and it is for many people, I'd suggest making your standard formula and make 3 or 4 different bowls of it. If a larger bakery couldn't fit all of the dough in their mixer they would make the final amount in different batches BUT they would adhere to the baker's percentages in each batch.

If you make 4 loaves and can only bake one of them at a time, and the bake time is about 40 minutes, your last loaf will have proofed 120 minutes longer than the first. This too will have an affect on the end product, unless you are retarding the loaves first.

I too have mixed in batches, timing each batch so that it had the same total fermentation and proofing time as every other batch. In that way the first bake is the same as the last. 

Best of luck and please keep us informed.

Jim

craigw9292's picture
craigw9292

Hey Jim, sorry I worded that really poorly!

The bakers % is the same I just do it slightly differently but the numbers round out.

My normal batch is 500g Flour/275g Water + (50g Water/2tsp Salt) mixed after Autolyse.

My double batch is 1kg Flour/600g Water + (50g Water/4tsp Salt) - here I don't double the 50g water with salt, I just mix it in to start. The result is still 650g of water to 1kg flour, 65%.

What's odd is it's so different ... I can definitely do lots of bowls, that's how I've been doing it but I thought I'd try figure out what's different.

Thanks

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I mostly make batches of four or more (up to 12 or 14, sometimes) as I bake for a subscription list. I have spreadsheets for all my recipes using baker's percentage to scale them up or down. Usually the only difference in processing is to mix the larger batches in my 30 quart commercial mixer, and the smaller batches in the KA stand mixer. I'll do one or sometime two loaves by hand, but not very often as I have arthritis and it's hard on my hands and wrists.

I haven't noticed any real difference in how the breads turn out. One bread I make all the time is a simple one with a poolish starter (made with beer), mostly white bread flour and about the same hydration as your bread. It turns out the same whether I'm making two loaves or 12.

craigw9292's picture
craigw9292

Thanks - I ran all the numbers again and I think I haven't been exact with my %'s. I never included the starter numbers and it's changing my % to 68% and then with oil :D 70% ... 

I just started using oil in baguettes and it's fantastic so I need to include the rough weight as well...

12x ... wow - would love to do it large scale!

Postal Grunt's picture
Postal Grunt

A poolish made with beer does sound interesting. Is it just as simple as using a room temperature mild lager in place of the water or do you have something else going on?

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

No, it's really that simple. Equal amounts (by weight) of home made lager and unbleached bread flour, with about 1/8 tsp of active dry yeast per loaf. Let it get bubbly, then add water, bread flour (with a bit of whole wheat), salt and another little bit of yeast. Lovely bread!

jimbtv's picture
jimbtv

CraigW,

Can you elaborate a bit on your baking process i.e., times, temps and steam please? How many loaves are you baking at a time?

Oil? I didn't see that in your original post. Hmmm....

Maybe you should lay out your formula here, along with all of your procedures so that we can get the full scope of your efforts. In that way we have all the facts and figures and can make some informed suggestions.

craigw9292's picture
craigw9292

Here is my process for a single batch:

500g Flour, 325g Water, Leaven (75g Water/75g Flour), 1tbsp Oil (sometimes, depends but doesn't seem to break things).

Baking is in a dutch oven, 1 loaf at a time. 500F for 10 minutes, 450F for 20 minutes, Lid off till dark. Any steam will be in the DO.

My dough process is:

Mix Flour and only 275g of water. Leave for a few hours or overnight.

Mix in Leaven and leave for 30 minutes.

Mix salt and remaining 50g of water and mix into the dough with the oil.

Stretch and Fold for 3 hours (every 30 minutes) or until it feels ready.

Shape and place into proofing baskets.

Let it rise for another 1-2 hours, again just based on how active it seems to be.

Fridge overnight.

Score before baking and straight into a pre-heated DO at 500F.

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Whether you make on loaf or several, it should make no difference, if the baker's percentage is the same. I, also mix usually batches of 4 breads (or more, if they are smaller). If you don't have a larger mixer (as I do), I would either make no-knead breads with stretch & fold, or, indeed, mix single portions in separate bowls.
For daily baking, I use the Paprika app where I can easily multiply formulas. For bread formula development I use BreadStorm.

Karin