Different kinds of sourness
Hi! I bake a lot of with a stiff starter (50-60% hydration) and have found that it works very well, reliably and without that typical sour component (tastewise). However, I've had had some inconsistencies when it comes to the last part, i.e. the sourness. It is not that my finished breads and sweet breads end up with an overall sour taste, but rather as though there is a distasteful, tart component in the aftertaste. This sourness is different from the sourness you get from a more standard starter, or the sourness of a rye bread, etc. This sourness only presents itself when I make sweet or enriched dough, and I really dislike it. It tastes like an undesirable byproduct, not like a sourness you would ever want in any kind of bread.
Some time ago I read the following article about upping and reducing sourness in starters/breads: http://brodandtaylor.com/make-sourdough-more-sour/. Upon re-reading it today it hit me that I usually do the bulk fermentation and/or the final proof in pretty warm conditions - probably around 30C. I always thought that warmer proofing temps favoured yeast activity over acidity, partly due to shorter fermentation times, so I'm kind of at a loss. The article seems to say that temps around 30C bring a shift towards acidity in the finished bread - even though it seems to me that slow, cold fermentation is what is traditionally recommended for increasing sourness. To be honest, I haven't been sure about this either because I've made some breads that have been been bulk fermented for more than 20 hours without notable sourness in the end.
Could anyone straighten this out for me? I would really like to understand what I have to do to get that little, but oh so off-putting sour note out of my sweet/enriched breads. Other than that, I would also like to wrap my head around the temp/sourness relationship.
Using a stiff starter. Perhaps this after taste only presents itself in your sweet enriched breads due to a wrong combination rather then a bad starter. There will be a number of variables with which you'll have to experiment from flour and hydration of your starter to the fermentation of the dough. Here are some general rules...
Lower hydration starter encourages acetic acid - the acid in vinegar.
High hydration starters encourage lactic acid - think yoghurt.
Young Levain I think has a sweeter profile.
Very mature starter has more tang to it.
Wholegrains in your starter/Levain encourage tang.
Just some pointers to see if you can get ideas on how to tweak your recipe. Have you thought about using a Yeast Water for your sweet enriched breads?
... as in more sour, or just more flavourful bread? If it is the latter, I have had the same experience. When it all goes according to plan I find that a very active firm starter gives me a lot of flavour development, pleasant texture and "bite", etc. without sourness.
Thank you so much for your ideas. Just off the top of my head I think I might have mixed my doughs with a starter that was a bit too mature. Like you said, a young firm starter can have a kind of sweetness to it (honey-like, IMO), while the same starter past its prime is very sour. It is definitely possible that I've waited a bit too long before using it, which would then impart that tang into the bread dough.
It surprises me a bit to hear that a high hydration starter would (in a way...?) be less sour than it's low hydration counterpart. My experience has been the contrary, but then again I don't think I've really tried maintaining a high hydration starter the same way I have my stiff starter; i.e. frequent feedings, room temp, etc.
You've given me food for thought :) I have several things to try now. I made yeast water a couple of months ago but never got around to using it, partly because I forgot it and partly because I wanted to resolve the sourdough problem...
Would impart a different "tang" being lactic instead of acetic. Might suit an enriched sweet dough better. Try it and see. If you keep your mother starter at a low hydration then a single build to higher hydration might not make a huge difference. Try maintaining a 125% Hydration starter for a few days before building a Levain and using when not overly ripe. Rye adds a nice sweetness to it otherwise I'd go for bread flour. I was having trouble getting a tang using a 100% hydration whole rye starter. Only when I switched to a 50% hydration starter (I too got this idea from Brod and Taylor) did I start getting the tang I wanted. But you won't be able to beat a yeast water for sweetness. And it's got amazing oven spring.