The Fresh Loaf

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Hollow bread

jacmosh's picture
jacmosh

Hollow bread

Hi there,

I've been messing around with high hydration sourdough breads and the last two times I produced hollow bread. I'm wonder if this means that I'm not developing the gluten enough or because its harder for me to shape these dough's I'm losing out on structure?

 

Any ideas would be great!

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

Underproofed.  Starter not ready.  End of story.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

miners would be proud of.   These things happen with a new, young starter where the bread is vastly under bulk fermented and then not preshaped and shaped well enough to prevent these tunnels the bakers family can live in.  It will get better with time and practice so no worries.

jacmosh's picture
jacmosh

.

Than you for your comments. This starter isn't young at all - I've had it for close to three months and used it successfully many times before this. Maybe the levain was not ready? This bread I did rush through, but before proofing my bulk fermentation was nice a bubbly as it has been in the past when there was no tunnel. 

The last time this happened I had a 4 hour bulk fermentation and a 15 hour proofing. The only thing I've changed is boosting my hydration from around 70% to closer to 80%. 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I really think more details as to recipe and technique are needed. With the minimal information you provided, and the picture, I would say WAY overproofed and minimal shaping (which can be difficult on a high hydration loaf.)

What flour did you use? Was the bulk fermentation doubled or more? What temp was the 15 hr proof at? Was it covered with anything to prevent drying? Room temp? Cold proof? More detail on that alone would be useful to know.

Flying roof or attic usually is attributed to shaping issues but this loaf also appears to have other issues, as well.

 

jacmosh's picture
jacmosh

Hello, sorry to leave out so many crucial details. 

I followed this recipe with a few variations to fit my schedule. I used Bob's Artisan Bread Flour and Bob's Stone Ground Whole grain flour instead of what is listed in this recipe. 

https://www.theperfectloaf.com/best-sourdough-recipe/

Levain Build:

WEIGHTINGREDIENTBAKER’S PERCENTAGE
35gMature liquid starter (100% hydration)50%
35gGiusto’s Stoneground Whole Wheat50%
35gGiusto’s Artisan Bread Flour50%
70gH2O @ room temperature100%

Dough build:

 

804gGiusto’s Artisan Bread Flour91.67%
73gGiusto’s Organic Stoneground Whole Wheat8.33%
755gH2O @ 90ºF86.11%
18gFine sea salt2.03%
150gMature, liquid levain17.09%

Levain created at 6am, stored in a cool place in the house covered with plastic wrap. 

30 minute autolyse at 3:30pm. Levain incorporated with salt at 4:00pm. 

Bulk fermentation 4:00pm to 830pm. 4 sets of folds every 20 minutes for the first 80 minutes.

Divide and shape at 830pm.

Proof in fridge until next day ~15 hours (due to work schedule). I placed the proofing basket in a plastic bag. I have proofed for this long before but with hydration's around 70% and had no problems. I understand this is a very high hydration bread. I'm just trying to figure out if the issue is with my shaping techniques, starter, or something else?

 

Thanks again! 

 

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

An immature starter or an unready levain. Same difference. This can happen in a young starter but same difference if your levain isn't ready. It was a 1:2:2 build for 8 hours but you say it was 'cool'. 

Why did you find a cool place? 

If an immature levain then that would have thrown everything else off. You might have followed a recommended bulk ferment but wouldn't have been ready!

The feel of the dough after the recommended bulk ferment time should have alerted you I'd it was ready or not. 

Then retarded in the fridge.  

It's difficult to pinpoint exactly what goes wrong but I'm hedging my bets on this. 

Maverick's picture
Maverick

Was it bubbly like the pictures on the link? Did you use a lot of flour when shaping?

suave's picture
suave

To my taste 4.5 hours is not a sufficient fermentation time even assuming that your levain was properly developed.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Have you considered reversing the order and doing a 15 hour cold fermentation and a 4 hour (or less) proof? It will require a different work around on your schedule.

From my own experience, I know that either my time/life is compromised or the bread is compromised when the schedules can't be made to mesh. This particular bread may be more compromised than you like with this particular schedule of a 4 hour bulk fermentation and a 15 hour cold proof. On the other hand, reversing for a 15 hour cold bulk fermentation and a 2-4 hour proof may compromise your time. 

The hydration level affects the handling, and it looks to me like shaping may be a good part of the problem with this particular loaf. High hydration percentage ,in and of itself, does not necessarily mean a sticky,hard to handle/shape dough. Doughs made with high gluten content and whole grain can absorb and distribute much higher percentages of water and still maintain a thick, manageable dough.   So how did this dough feel? Wet,sticky and flows out of your hand? Or more like a lower hydration dough-tacky and kneadable?

Usually, the shaping causes a flying roof but overproofing the dough can add to the problem. As the gluten strands become weaker with overproofing, a lot of the bubbles break and forms a larger air pocket. Poor oven spring is also a symptom.

Is your mother starter very active? I do 2-3 feeds starting the day before I make the preferment. My favorite WW process is:

  • Day before using-2-3 room temperature feeds of mother starter (mother kept in refrig between weekly feeds-I bake weekly) 
  • 8AM mix my liquid preferment-sit on counter at 68-75F room temp
  • Between 6-8PM (depending on employment schedule), mix up rest of dough and add preferment-mix/knead to windowpane
  • Put in greased, covered container and into refrigerator. It usually rises
  • Next AM remove and let sit for 2-3 hours or more to finish rising to double-can incorporate S&F, if necessary- it usually rises a lot in the refrigerator
  • Divide, shape, pan (if panning)
  • Proof (usually less than an hour)
  • Bake

Keep baking. Make note of some of the mentioned ideas and see what happens. Document and change only 1 thing for a true troubleshooting. Worst case is that it was a fluke bake. That can happen.

Lovely, bold bake!