September 21, 2016 - 9:48pm
My rolls go flat, out of shape
I baked lion house rolls according to recipe but rolls were out of shape. :( I would like to know why so next time the rolls will come out good. The were out shape when they were rising after shaping so it not like I knocked the air out when transferring to oven.
This is the recipe I used:
http://www.the-girl-who-ate-everything.com/2010/11/lion-house-rolls.html
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about "...out shape when they were rising after shaping..."
How warm was the "warm water" and the dough and the room temp. (about, hot or cold?) How long did the dough rise? Any extra details would helpful. How long did the dough take to double and how was the dough deflated after the bulk or first rise?
The recipe dough looks rather firm, did the dough shape up and look like the shaped rolls in the pictures or was it softer and tended to loose the hard lines and firmness quickly?
Did you use steam in the oven?
Room temperature was 22C I was working in the middle of the night.
Didn't measure dough temperature but it was warm when I was kneading it.
I use warm water about 35-36C. I never use hot water when baking bread and the yeast I use is good.
I don't have a kitchen aid to knead the dough. I have braun kitchen machine k3000 which has dough kneading attachment. I use it to knead dough. First I add 1/3 of flour and all the liquids. Knead for 2 minutes, let it stand for 15 minutes until bubbles form, add the rest of the ingredients, knead for 5 minutes. Then I further knead it by hand until it's smooth. Usually it takes only 4-5 minutes.
I used 5 cups of flour kneading in machine. Added 1/2 cup little by little as I was kneading by hand. I use the folding method once all ingredients are incorporated well.
First rise after kneading dough, I left the dough in refrigerator from 4am to 12:30pm on the lowest shelf. It had doubled in size when I took it out. It's the warmest part of refrigerator compared to higher shelves inside. I prefer slow rise as temperatures in kitchen vary a lot over the day. Sometimes the dough rises very fast and gives an alcoholic smell. I live in the tropics btw. Temperature fluctuations, high humidity, sudden showers or rain is all normal where I live.
I just drop the bowl of dough on counter to get air out. I don't punch dough.
The dough was smooth and firm but not too firm/stiff. It held the lines and shape well. Exactly as in pics.
During the second rise, I started shaping dough right out of the refrigerator into rolls. The rolls rose well and I was very happy but after 45 minutes they just went sort plop like a punctured tyre letting all air out. The lines were there but it went poof flat. At the time it was noon and temperature was 28-27C, humidity was at 98%. I had all rolls arranged in trays on counter. My heart went plop too.
My oven is a small and simple counter top convection+microwave type and I didn't use steam.
That's what I did and what happened.
I'm planning on making them in next few days and I want them to not go poof on me :( they're delicious.
I have made other rolls/buns but this hasn't happened with them. I'm very curious why. The other rolls I made were as firm as this dough but I didn't have this poof problem.
For example this recipe http://happyhomebaking.blogspot.in/2008/07/garlic-buns.html?m=1
This was my result...
Try to keep the moisture of your dough . You don't need a sticky dough if you want to make a roll bread's . Do not using too much sugar too .
Use a straight method with no rest proffing after mixing .
That's my opinion
I will keep in mind :)
I would suggest after shaping the rolls that you put them back into the refrigerator to keep them cool while they proof and not to proof them very long. Don't let them "double." Make the oven and steam do most of the work.
The rolls in the posted picture were over-proofed: (the garlic ones look very yummy)
"I started shaping dough right out of the refrigerator into rolls. The rolls rose well and I was very happy but after 45 minutes they just went sort plop like a punctured tyre..."
That would mean that 45 minutes final rise was too long for the dough. That's when you have to judge your dough and not pay attention to the recipe time. The dough is proofing faster than the times given in the recipe.
Perhaps the refrigerator runs warm. Or the yeast got too big of a start. You might also want to skip the 15 minutes proofing of the yeast if it is instant. If it happens again, and the dough hasn't taken on the heavy alcohol smell, reshape each roll and let them them rise again but only for a short time. Do not let them fully double. You also might consider cutting back on the two Tablespoons of yeast. Try just one Tablespoon. That should give you more time for a second final proof.
If you are doing several oven loads, keep the dough chilled making one pan at a time from the dough. Make one pan and when ready for the oven, shape the next one to rise while the first batch is baking. If you adjust the recipe yeast, this may not be necessary but I would try to stagger the timing on each load.
I have to laugh about the bowl dropping, I'm a bowl dropper myself, get a thrill every time! Especially when I make anyone nearby jump. :) (little pleasures!)
More tips. If you have a way to measure the volume increase of the dough while it is chilled (straight sided container instead of a bowl shape) you may be able to adjust the yeast amount more accurately. I am also in a tropic zone and cut back the yeast on all recipes. First in half and later more if I need to. I also stopped warming the water to slow down the yeast. My water at room temp is warm enough. Milk from the fridge is another matter but I think the friction of the food processor would warm that up quickly.
Hope this helps, Mini
Those garlic buns are very delicious. I usually double or triple the recipe. :) you should try them too.
Refrigerator temperature at lowest shelf is about 10-12C. Don't know if that's warm. I'll try a higher shelf next time.
I thought yeast was too much when I was mixing the ingredients. I use regular yeast it's not instant. I think I cut about 1/2 the amount or so, don't remember exactly cuz I really suck at remembering measures of ingredients for some odd reason.
My grandma taught me a bad habit "don't measure and cook" I usually go with "pinch of this, dash of that" by habit. If I feel it's too much when I'm measuring, I automatically cut it down out of habit if it's something like salt, sugar, yeast, seasonings. I don't change flour water butter milk etc. I wanna change this habit of mine :(
Also I don't like having too much yeast in dough.....gives an off taste. I'm very frugal with adding yeast in these tropics. They multiply pretty fast and easily so a tad bit is enough.
I'll try measuring the dough rise next time in a rectangular box like you recommended and adjust the yeast.
The dough only gets alcoholic when I rise it at room temperatures. In refrigerator it doesn't.
My dog usually accompanies me and sleeps in his favorite spot near the door. Dropping the bowl makes him jump every time. Scared my family few times too. It's really funny lol. I put a towel under bowl to lessen the noise when I work during late nights.
Usually 15 minutes on counter works well on most rolls and buns. Skipping proofing works for me too. It's a good idea to keep the rolls chilled. I usually do it in summer, guess I should do it all the time. It'll help me a lot as my oven is small I make them in batches. I can bake 6 of these at a time, no more than that. (I need a bigger oven)
In summers I often use water, milk as it is without warming as temperatures hit 40C. I even use cold water and milk and just pop the dough in refrigerator. I'm not happy baking in hot weather but I'm addicted to homemade bread and love it :D
Thanks for all the tips, I'll keep them in mind.
Is the amount of yeast... note that if you multiply the flour (200g) in the garlic buns by three to get the flour amount of the lion buns, the yeast in the garlic buns is 1/2 tsp. ---> times three gives half a Tablespoon! The lion bun recipe asks for 2 Tbs of yeast.
First thing I would try, keeping the rest of the recipe the same... is cutting back the yeast.
Yes, could be compared to "Don't drink and drive." Do them separately but not at the same time. Same with cooking. Measure everything before hand then do the cooking with all the ingredients in front of you. :)
I love my little oven. It's pre-heating on the patio table now, outside in the shade.
Small ovens give very good crust. I prefer using them for small crusty breads and making crunchy bread sticks. :)
Maybe my grandma meant the same as you said but I can't ask her anymore. :( I need to change my habit.
I'll let you know how my rolls come out when I bake them. I should be able to bake on Monday or so.