The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

38% Wholegrain Kamut SD/YW Combo

joc1954's picture
joc1954

38% Wholegrain Kamut SD/YW Combo

In the spirit of my latest experiments with yeast water/SD combo and because I had some wholegrain kamut flour leftover this was my last bake before a 10 days trip to San Francisco for Oracle Open World event.

Actually nothing special, like any other bread. 77,5% hydration, relatively low due to bad experience with the kamut flour that I had some time ago. The recipe is below. YW levain was over 24 hours old and was very  bubbly, the SD levain was young - about 4 hours after inoculation. 30 minutes autolyze, 3 hour bulk fermentation with S&F every 30 minutes at 27dC,, 30 minutes bench rest , about 2 hours final raise, baked in iron-cast skillet.

  Happy baking, Joze

 

Comments

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

One more thing to try eventually for me. Thank you for the inspiration!

Ru007's picture
Ru007

Your loaves look awesome!!! 

Great job! 

Ru

joc1954's picture
joc1954

Thanks Ru for your opinion.

I don't know if every kamut flour is so tricky to bake with as the flour I can get here in Slovenia. We have some local production of kamut here, unfortunately whatever flour I got was more or less the same. The gluten developed from kamut flour has quite different characteristics so I am always kind of a nervous when I am using kamut flour. Actually this is the first time that the result was better than I was expecting according to my past somehow negative experience.

For my first kamut bread I was following Chad Robertson's recipe from his "Tartine bread 3" book for 60% wholegrain kamut flour with 85% hydration. The dough was runny and way too wet (for my opi nion). It was really hard to shape it. The bread tasted ok, but there was almost no oven spring. Significantly reducing the hydration obviously helped a lot. I am sure that at 77% hydration even 60% kamut flour would yield normal results.  Will test it again. At the same time I must admit that I was doing this in time when I started baking with SD and high hydration dough so lack of experience also contributed a lot to not so good results. Kamut flour is really a challenge for me but I am making a slow progress.

My ultimate goal for kamut bread is Dab's 100% whole grain kamut bread, amazing result for so tricky flour.

Happy baking, Joze

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

It worked better with SD only but the hydration was around 90% too and less than the 102% hydration Kamut with YW added.   I think the YW opens the crumb of whole grain breads if you get the hydration not too high and gluten development right.  The acid in the SD strengthens the gluten strands too so both together should give you a great bread - just like yours turned out here.  You are too kind! 

It is everything I look for in bread.  Beautiful spring, bloom, crust and crumb.  Well done and happy baking 

Ru007's picture
Ru007

Dab's loaf looks amazing! I can't to see your take on it. 

I've never seen kamut in South Africa, but if i ever get my hands on it, i'd love to try it. 

Good luck with the loaf, i'm sure you'll do great :)

joc1954's picture
joc1954

for so nice words. Honestly speaking, it will take me some time to come closer to your bread, so a lot of baking.

I was really amazed by your Kamut bread and was always wandering how you can make it with so high hydration. If I would try to come closer to your numbers my dough is almost like a thick batter and whatever I do in order to better develop gluten just fails. IMHO the flour I am using is obviously not so thirsty as yours. I had the same experience with other flours as my AP flour has only bout 9% gluten and the bread flour I can get would be max around 11%. I tested this hypothesis by adding some vital gluten flour with 82% of gluten to reach 14% and magic happened. Of course it's not just gluten, it's also a lot in the technique and experience. Here I have to exrecise a lot.

Nice weekend and happy baking, Joze

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

flour that is more thirsty.  The thing is to get it as wet as it will take ,without turning into a puddle, then fridge to final roof and bake straight out of the fridge to keep it from spreading too much.  Another fun way to do it is to make a 100% hydration ciabatta out of it where spreading is good thing.  I don't like my ciabatta too high - 2" max.  It is better when sliced in half for the panini press and have it come put just the right tickness when done:-) 

joc1954's picture
joc1954

Thanks for great ideas, will try with freshly grounded flour and the trick with storing it the fridge. There are still some kamut berries on the shelf in my kitchen. Will also try with sprouted grains, but this comes next. Kamut is favorite grain of my older daughter, so I make her really happy whenever I add some kamut flour to the dough.

Happy baking, Joze

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the less water is needed for some reason sop watch the water.

joc1954's picture
joc1954

Thanks for the warning, will watch. For now have no experience with sprouted grains but that's on the todo list.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman
dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

TFL Gremlin strikes again!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

It worked better with SD only but the hydration was around 90% too and less than the 102% hydration Kamut with YW added.   I think the YW opens the crumb of whole grain breads if you get the hydration not too high and gluten development right.  The acid in the SD strengthens the gluten strands too so both together should give you a great bread - just like yours turned out here.  You are too kind! 

It is everything I look for in bread.  Beautiful spring, bloom, crust and crumb.  Well done and happy baking 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Those look really great.  Color, oven spring, grignes, and especially the wonderful crumb.  If I recall, you were going to TRY to make your way into Tartine this weekend.  Any such luck?

joc1954's picture
joc1954

Alfanso, thanks for encouragement!

Tartine bakery is on my today's schedule. I will preorder and pay one loaf of bread to take it home Thursday afternoon. I will visit them also tomorrow afternoon around 4:30PM when the bread will come out of the oven and will try to get one loaf. If I will not be lucky then I will have to wait until I will get my preordered one. 

It is really a great pleasure (and laso luck) that I can visit bakeries in SF and taste their bread which somehow made a complete paradigm shift in baking SD. I am just eating now country bread from The mill (one day old) and it is a great bread, maybe slightly more sour than mine. Still fresh and perfect in all aspects although I didn't  store it in the fridge, just in a paper bag.

After tasting this bread I got a little bit more self-confidence that the bread I am baking is actually very good. Please don't get this in a wrong manner. Whenever I am evaluating my bread I am doing only from perspective of my ideas about how the bread should be, but there is usually no other sample available that you can compare with.

The most important fact is that you as author are satisfied with the results and that people who eat it, share same opinion. My bread is my bread, it's not yours or somebody's else. However, comparing it to some "well known ideal" is always interesting and yields ideas for improvement but at the same time also brings some self-confidence that you are on the right path. We never stop learning and there is always some niche where you can make more.

Will post about visiting Tartine bakery.

Happy baking, Joze