The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Advice on Pain à l’Ancienne

Crusty's's picture
Crusty's

Advice on Pain à l’Ancienne

My first time trying this recipe and my dough has been in the ice box for 5 1/2 hours and is already doubled. I won't be ready to bake until tomorrow so what should I do? It still has 10hrs till I'll be ready to work with it.I'm wondering if I still need to let it come to room temp prior to baking. I followed the recipe from The Bread Bakers Apprentice started with the 19 oz of water and ended up using about 20. I weighed everything used water chilled to 38 degrees an used Fleischmann's instant yeast. 

 

Dough was mixed and placed into the fridge around 3:00pm the picture is from about 6:00am the next morning. The black line indicates original mass.

BXMurphy's picture
BXMurphy

Hi,  Crusty!

I'm so new and certainly no expert. Just got my BBA book the other day. Reinhart says time and temperature are your control points to bring all the processes together. Also, I'm reading on TFL that when that dough is ready, you and your oven better be, too!

I'm thinking that if you're doubled and still 10 hours away, I'd just let it sit. That'll stop further fermentation and things will start to die but that two hours before you're ready to bake, I might stretch and fold two times to redistribute everything, wait 30 minutes, look for a quick rise, and bake right away hoping there's still some life and food left for oven spring.

I'm curious, though, if freezing at this point might also be an option. Has anyone tried that? 

Murph

hanseata's picture
hanseata

if you freeze the dough - not a good idea.

Karin

Crusty's's picture
Crusty's

Thanks for the advice Murph.

The only experience I have with freezing dough is when I worked at a grocery store bakery and we received all dough in frozen form LOL. We would take out the pre-made dough and let it thaw overnight on baking trays, slide it into the proofer in the morning then into the big ovens. If I only had the space and equipment for that here at home "daydreaming". 

Upon awakening it looked as though my dough had tripled overnight. I took it out of the fridge and tried my best to work with it making some very ugly baguettes and two large ciabatta. The ciabatta sat out longer than the baguettes and had very little handling thus did better. I overcooked the baguettes because frankly I knew they were a mistake and wasn't paying attention. Neither turned out with the extra flavor I expected with a overnight fermentation. I'm trying agin this morning and if the dough rises to quickly I will try and make it a one day process rather than waiting overnight. I'll be embarrassingly posting pictures latter. I usually make Jason's quick coccodrillo ciabatta and it turns out well and is fun to make but I wanted to try a dough that would be versatile that I could make in a larger batch and use for several breads. I'm probably taking on to much to soon but it's all good. 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

You can try 4 grams instead of the 5 g of the recipe. (I use only 3, but I add a bit of active starter in my version of this bread).

If your dough has already doubled when you take it out of the fridge, you don't have to wait for it to come to room temperature, before you slice it.

Karin

Crusty's's picture
Crusty's

I figure using less yeast can't hurt. I really need to evoke some flavor. I'm using KA Bread Flour. 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Why not just try it per the recipe the first time.  I have used this recipe many times with great results (usually for focaccia), despite robust rising in the fridge.  There will be some degassing with the folds, less sugar will be consumed than if you had not used ice water, and more flavor will result from the retarding.  You could lower the temp in the fridge next time.

Crusty's's picture
Crusty's

I didn't let the dough come to room temperature due to the high rise in the fridge. My intentions being to degas as little as possible. This was obviously a mistake based on the outcome. (I'm still trying to add the pics)

 On this next batch I've used a little less yeast, lowered the fridge temp to 41 it was on 46 and used a glass bowl instead of a plastic container. I'm thinking the glass will stay colder. Should the dough double or triple I will try a S&F to redistribute and let it come to room temp before proceeding. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I make several of Reinhart's breads. Some of the ones with commercial yeast I'll have in the fridge for a couple of days. They will rise a lot at first but then the cold temperature seems to 'hold' the activity, so when I take the dough out and shape it cold (I do a bit of stretching when I shape to make it tight) it usually only needs 2 hours to pass the poke test and be ready to bake. Mind you. most of those are not really wet ciabatta doughs and some of them are enriched (i.e. have sweetener and fat of some kind in them) so they will perform differently.

I wouldn't freeze bread dough generally unless it's already shaped first, then you just have to let it thaw and proof before you bake it. I do freeze pizza dough in single portions though, then let it defrost, shape and bake.

Crusty's's picture
Crusty's

So after cutting back the yeast and lowering the fridge temp I still have massive rise. I'm taking it out now and giving it a go again. The first time didn't turn out to well so I'm handing the batton to Mr. Crusty. Wish us luck.

 

Linda

BXMurphy's picture
BXMurphy

Hi, Linda!

If you're just looking to slow down the rise, I'd probably try using half the yeast and see what happens. That should really do it.

I'd look at refrigerator temperature, too, if you're also using it to store food. Safe food handling requires temps under 40°F for cold storage or over 140°F for hot service.

I haven't looked at the recipe. Is there anything in there besides flour, water, salt, and yeast? I'd probably be looking at what food is available for the yeast to munch so heartily on. Also, higher hydration (more water) lets those guys move around more to get at the food.

It's fun to watch you try and manipulate your schedule. I'm interested in that, too. I'm trying to learn sourdough breads. Everything in that world moves so slooowly but time is still an issue.

Have fun and let us know what happens!

Murph

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

I was having issues with my bread proofing too fast in the fridge and couldn't understand how others on here could retard their breads 18 to 24 hours. I checked my fridge's temperature and it was 42. Since I dropped it to 37-38F I haven't had any issues with it overproofing. Now I bake when I want to bake, and I don't get up in the middle of the night anymore to check on the dough.

Crusty's's picture
Crusty's

Thanks for all the great advice.

I had no idea I needed the fridge to be that cold. I have a fairly new fridge ~3years and it ranges from 33 to 46. Comon sense should have told me if the water in the recipe is to be at 40 the fridge should be at least that cold. I've ended up with frozen produce before so I don't watch the temp too much and if power goes out it resets to 46. Why would this new fridge go to 46 if safe food handling is 40? It's made for food storage (scratching head). Anyway I didn't realize it was at 46 until I checked it on my first attempt. The second attempt went about the same on a lowered temp of 42. So I didn't wait overnight but tried to make bread same day with about a 10hr ferment. Yes I still wasn't getting it. DUH! Third attempt after lowering yeast again and lowering fridge temp again I have received the expected overnight rise. I'll be making a trip to family to drop off all the crap bread as I affectionately call my mistakes. They love it. They will eat anything. Now it's about time to start playing with the dough.

Linda