Dark Rye Flour Rising Power
Hello Everyone,
I am on Day 7 of my first ever Sourdough Starter.
As I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada ( Elevation 3500 Ft.), i am using "No Additive, Rogers Dark rye Flour.
This flour is made from the whole kernel and lists the ingredients as Rye Flour, Rye Bran.
My starter mix is : 100g starter, 50g water, 50g Dark Rye Flour.
My starter sitting in my oven at 72F-78F has more bubbles then a bubble bath, but maxes out at about 1 1/2
rise in about 5 hours before starting to go swayback in the middle and goes down.
i then stir it down, do not feed it, cover it and put it back in the oven and within a few hours it again rises about 1 1/2 size again in way under 5 hours and gets swaybacked and goes down.
This twice rising happens in way less then 12 hours,so i let it rest unfed until the next morning.
The next morning, I discard 1/2 of starter and feed it with 50g each of water and dark rye flour.
I have not gone to a maintenance schedule because it just will not reach a double in size rise, but is loaded with bubbles and energy.
I understand that rye flour is low in gluten, so is this the possible reason that it cannot achieve a double in size rise?
Perhaps when using a Dark Rye Flour, one cannot expect that size of rise versus using a high gluten flour?
The recipe I'm using is from the SourdoughHome website and recommends a twice daily feeding maintance of discard 1/2 starter, save the other 1/2 and feed 50g each of water and flour.
My question is,"Is my starter ready to go to the maintenance phase if it is only rising 1 1/2 in size regularly?"
Any help and/or suggestions would really be appreciated as I don't want to starve it to death just because I'm a novice at doing this.
Thanks kindly for any help.
Gebba
in 12 hours if I stir it down every time. I use home milled whole grain grain that has all the germ in it that was removed from your flour where the germ has been removed. I wouldn't worry about it - your starter sounds fine to me. Make some bread with no worries
Happy SD baking
I do have a question however. Are you using organic flour, and purified water to feed your starter? Some may disagree, and for some may not be necessary, but for me it makes a huge difference.
I suspect that your failure to double in volume is due to CO2 leaking out of your bubbles for lack of gluten and insufficient water to make wet bubbles. The timing sounds about right though at a refresh ratio of 2:1:1 I think you are underfeeding it and as a result it is consuming all of the available sugars in short order. But not feeding it again for 24 hrs is just fine for now, the result will be that you shift the LAB:yeast ratio to a different point. It is capable of doubling four times in 24 hrs if you feed it every six hours and would probably rise higher if you mixed in a little high gluten flour and made it a little wetter - maybe (1:6:5). This would also mean that you don't have to feed as often. I feed at (1:13:15) all white flour and it runs 24 hrs before it has fallen back to where it started - just a lot more fluid at the end. And you don't need to maintain that much starter; one ounce (or less) total is quite enough to make a lot of bread. As dabrownman will explain, a little starter will go a long way.
Look at it this way. Your starter is just fine but it won't be if you continue to under feed it. That is not feeding it for 24 hrs when it is has consumed most of the food. If the starter is fed only half of the weight of the starter culture, you are getting more than your share of rise with 1 1/2 increase. Feed it double the weight of the starter (like 50g starter fed 100g flour) and you will see more than double I'm sure. Feed more say 20g starter to 100g flour, and you will see it quadruple or better in the same 12 hour period. Warning... don't get hung up on the word "double."
Your starter is more than ready to switch to a maintenance schedule.
Rye doesn't depend on gluten to hold baking gases, but on a viscous starchy gel that forms when rye meets water. You note that the package lists wholegrain rye plus bran, which is the giveaway that the flour has a depleted endosperm content, which means less complex carbs, i.e., starches, available for conversion into sugars to feed the yeast and lactobacilli in your sponge
That won't harm the resident microorganisms, but it does mean that you'll have to feed more frequently to keep your starter robust.
I would add that the ideal refresh formula is 100% hydration and inoculation with 10% old starter. That will produce a robust sponge with plenty of available nutrients.
Stan Ginsberg, theryebaker.com
Hello Everyone,
My sincere "Thanks" to each of you for sharing your experience and knowledge regarding the rising
power of my first ever sourdough starter, made from dark rye flour. ( Canadian, Rogers Flour)
To answer one question presented to me: No, my flour is not organic and the water I am using is tap water,
boiled to remove chlorine and left to sit at room temperature.
I did adjust the water level slightly in some feeds, and I did try the 100g Starter + 100g Flour + 100 g water feed,
but nothing seemed to make any difference to it.
And still doesn't ! It just regularly does it's thing.
It rises easily at 75F, just gets a wee dimple dent in the center (not swaybacked anymore) and sits there, high up, full of bubbles,looking out the oven window and waits until i come to feed it.
So I went back to discarding 1/2 and feeding every 12 hours with 50g water & 50 g rye flour,
After my first post, I put it in a round container with straight sides and it WAS easily doubling and more. I just had not factored
in the fact that the original bowl it was in, was considerably wider going up then at the bottom.
With that light bulb moment also came it's name, "DoughDuh".
What is in the container is "Dough" and what is outside, pacing the floor, looking in at it, goggling the net for 16 hours straight is "Duh" !
Hence we are officially now a SD team called, "DoughDuh".
And yes we did bake buns with it.
It did great. The buns are great,
I'm in stable condition and expected to live.
Which brings me to my next plea for SD enlightenment.
The recipe I used for the buns was one from the KAF Unfed Starter site.
I had 3 days of discard starter in the fridge so decided to use some of it.
The KAF recipe called for unfed starter plus instant yeast to make these flaky, buttery buns. So that is what I used.
I followed the instructions with surgical precision but did use my mixer with bread equipment to knead it.
All was good until it hit the first rise part just before noon.
The rest is a high speed blur with only a few moments to pause and replenish myself with cold gatorade or beer,
before getting back in the ring and punching it down, fold and stretch, putting it in the fridge, taking it out, yelling at my husband
to stand by to call 911 !
In a total of 6 hours, it had first rise, punch down,fold and stretch, second rise, punch down, fold and stretch, third rise, punch down, fold and stretch, then both my husband and myself forming bun balls at high speed, rising , into the oven and out.
That night I flushed the rest of the bowl of discarded starter down the toilet (only had to use the "Big Gun"plunger once, as it plugged the toilet up).
So my question is: "How much yeast power is left in the unfed, discarded starter? For how long?"
I thought it was dead, just something to add texture and flavor to any bread dough.
So why do they call for using instant yeast plus unfed starter, other then to amuse the starter by traumatizing the baker?
How to you know what to expect in recipes calling for discard or unfed starter ?
Who wants a 3 foot high pancake, muffin or bun that can out run you?
I eagerly await your sage advice or the number of a SWAT team.
Thanks again SD people.
Gebba
"It rises easily at 75F, just gets a wee dimple dent in the center (not swaybacked anymore) and sits there, high up, full of bubbles,looking out the oven window and waits until i come to feed it."
Rye starters can peak and remain domed long after they need to be refreshed or fed. If you gently poke or open the top of the domed starter, you should be able to tell if it has fallen inside creating a hollow dome. If the starter is hollow, feed it again. If full of nice bubbly starter, use it or set into the fridge, cool it down, to be used in the next 12 hours or so.
Remember to judge the pure rye starter not only on rise but more importantly on aroma and taste and consistency of yeast bubbles throughout. As the starter gets beyond 8 hours old (after being fed) it looses it's ability to continue trapping gas, so after 8 or so hours one has to rely on the other signs of activity to judge how much food is available for the starter culture to feed on.