The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

SJSD Baguette attempt with issues

danmerk's picture
danmerk

SJSD Baguette attempt with issues

Need some help. I have the same oven as David does (the gas version I believe) and I have a horrid time getting that perfect oven steam. I know this is one of the biggest topics here. What I use:

Gas Oven set to 500F for 1 hour
1 tray of lava rocks placed at the bottom of the oven
I mist the oven with filtered water before peeling onto my stone
I also pour 1 cup of hot water in the pan after I peel
After 20 min, I flip oven to Convection @ 425F.

My oven spring happens, but my slashes are missing and the bread has a dull flour appearance and not the perfect round tube I see on David's posts.

The issues I think I am having with the dough may be some methods I may not be following properly. Looking for David to chime in here. Much appreciated.

Friday I take my starter thats living on my counter. I feed it every other day using Maggie Glezer's formula for a stiff starter (works for me). 

1/4c starter + 3T water + 1/3c flour (using KA MP) knead, ball, cover with wrap in a bowl every other day.

On Friday I took the starter out and added a little bit of water to fake a wet starter. Then I followed David's formula for the levain. It seemed really small volume, like a total of 350g but appeared like 1/4c total of the starter. I let it sit in the pan overnight. Saturday morning it looked like it already fermented and was beginning to fall. Lots of bubbles and activity.

Mixed up the rest of the dough per the recipe for the single batch. Tried the French kneading method, worked ok. Have to work on my rhythm. I let it rest for 2 hours but folded every 30 min. Placed in a plastic container and into the fridge overnight. 

18 hours later pulled out the dough. Cut into 4 pieces and shaped cold saggy baguettes. Placed on my well floured linen cloche. Let rest for 2 hours and saw really no activity so decided to peel into the above oven method described earlier. I got rise and the taste was awesome, but they were pale with burnt bottoms. The slashes disappeared.

Sending up an image in the reply from my phone.

 

Help?

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

electric oven,  With gas the best baking is in a DO or some kind of cloche.  Steaming with Mega Steam, or lava rocks or Silvia's steam work great for baguettes on a stone in electric ovens.  You might want to get a big disposable aluminum pan or a large roaster to cover smaller sized baguettes in a gas oven.  SJSD makes some of the best baguettes on the planet.  A beautiful dough to shape and work with - with great flavor, spring bloom, crust and crumb.  Very hard in a gas oven though

Happy baking 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Hi Danmark,

Home baking whiz SteveB uses a combination of hotel pan plus steam machine to create steam in an enclosed environment.  A bit kluge, but he does produce really high quality breads using this method.

http://www.breadcetera.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/ScoringSteaming.mov

He drilled a hole in his hotel pan and then injects the steam into it with a simple OTC steaming "gun".  Effective?  Apparently so, but I don't like that you can't see what's going on inside the pan until you remove it.

alan

Edo Bread's picture
Edo Bread

Danmark - I will make a few comments around what alan had to say. I have this setup of a pan with hole and steam gun and it works great. I feel just the opposite of alan, putting a pan and rocks, and dumping in water trying not to burn myself or break the glass etc. feels kludgy and dangerous (I did that for a long time) the shot with a steam gun is easy - it can even be used without the pan on top and just fill the oven with steam with a crack in the door. You can get a lot of steam from some of these units and it is going in hot so you don't the negative effects of throwing water on something hot.

But I have found another approach that I like even better for the last few months I have used the Emile Henry baguette cloche. These is a review by someone else here on the TFL 

I find it does an amazing job and eliminates all the extra gear and kludgy-ness.  While both these methods do mean you can't see what is going on until you take them off, I find you get used to that and it is actually kind of fun when you do the "reveal" -  I also realized even if I could see things there really isn't anything I would do during the process from looking at it anyway.  Just wanted to give you another perspective and another option. Good luck!

 

Edo Bread's picture
Edo Bread
Edo Bread's picture
Edo Bread

The dreaded double/triple posts -   lets just say:

Baguettes are good!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

My oven is an electric with a convection fan optional. I have no experience with gas ovens. 

Your photo does suggest insufficient steam, as you say. From what others have written about getting steam in a gas oven, it seems to me that finding a way to cover the loaves for the first part of the bake is the simplest, and I think it works as well as any of the more elaborate methods.

A large roasting pan of large stainless steel buffet serving piece would work. I have even used a disposable, relatively light weight aluminum foil roasting pan with fair results.

There may be other issues with your shaping and scoring, but I can't tell for sure until the steaming problem has been solved. From your description, it sounds like your bulk fermentation is a bit short and you are not doing the pre-shape with a rest for one hour, then shape with a 45 minute final proof. Without going into all the reasons, I think that is also effecting your loaves' final shape.

David

danmerk's picture
danmerk

Thanks. I will plan on getting that up and running again this weekend. So a pre shape is when I remove this from the refrigerator and cut my weights into 3-4 loaves, make a ball and cover for one hour? Then make the final shapes?

danmerk's picture
danmerk

David, sorry for all the questions.

Any thoughts on how to convert my solid starter into your version? Would you suggest that using a very small amount of a Levain is key along with a long cold rest makes the best flavor in this recipe? You have me really curious about this recipe. Is there a blog post where you discuss how this recipe came to fruition? Was this just trial and error for the last few years? Really impressed. Cheers

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

This may help. Read the linked entries in order:

San Joaquin Sourdough 1

San Joaquin Sourdough variation

San Joaquin Sourdough, updated

San Joaquin Sourdough: Update

There are many more intervening steps along the way. If you want to really explore origins, this is where it all started: The Great Baguette quest N°3: Anis Bouabsa

Re. converting a firm levain to a liquid levain: Just take your firm levain and mix as a liquid levain, e.g., 30g levain + 75g water + 75g flour(s). That will be close enough. If you want to do a very precise conversion, read this tutorial: Converting starter hydrations: A Tutorial. Or through thick and thin and vice versa

Re. the amount of levain (starter) used. The SJSD does have about half as much pre-fermented flour as most sourdough breads. I have experimented with increased amounts. I like about 10% best, i.e., 50g of pre-fermented flour (100g of a 100% hydration levain) for 550g total flour.

Hope this helps! (IOW, That will teach you to ask questions!) ;-)

David

danmerk's picture
danmerk

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

You will tell us what you did, of course. ;-)

David