December 28, 2015 - 10:38am
Vermont SD, Kombucha Style
I recently grew a starter from Kombucha and here are the results of my first bake with it.
I was following Abe's post of Hamelman's recipe, found here.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/44371/sourdough-serendipity
Of course, crumb shot to follow, but it looks promising.
dobie
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Full of promise. Looking forward to crumb shot and taste report.
OK Abe,
I couldn't wait any longer so I cut into it. BTW, waiting 12 hrs is better that the four I just did. Even tho it was fully cool, the moisture seems off somehow. Hard to describe. Very nice sandwich bread tho.
As you know, I made a similar loaf last week using my usual starter. The results are very similar. I would put the 'sour' at about a 3 on a scale of 1-10.
If you weren't looking for it, you might not notice it, but it is clearly there when looked for. This surprised me as the starter itself was sweet when the dough was begun.
The crust is crisp and very flavorful, but not too chewey. The crumb is tender and moist, but not gummy.
The flavor profile is not 'over the top' different from the usual starter, but there is a distinct difference, and I would say a positive one. It seems somehow more complex, but not foreign to the mode.
I've only had one slice yet, so time will tell if I can better describe the nuance, but it is quite nice. It lingers on the tongue.
Worth the effort? I don't know. Perhaps. We'll see how it plays out. I know not to pass judgement on one slice alone. I've saved the heel from the similar one I did earlier this week, so (to some extent), I can do a taste comparison.
dobie
The photo hasn't come through. Says it doesn't exist or can't be displayed. However, from the original photo and your description I am curious to try it myself.
Can you describe what you did to create the starter? I was thinking of treating it like yeast water and inoculating 20% of the flour (taking the added flour as 100% - bakers' percentages) with kombucha. Leaving that to bubble then proceed onto the recipe. I can buy some in my local shop.
Gotta plan something for over the weekend. If you can get the photo to work that would be great!
Abe
First, to answer your question in short, I think if you were so inclined, as long as the Kombucha you purchase has not been pasteurized, I would think at 100% hydration with AP flour, it would probably work out well in making a starter or levain. I would be very interested in your results.
Second, sorry you're having trouble seeing the photo (s?). Here is a direct link to my PhotoBucket file. You can scroll from there if you are missing any of the other pics (3 in total, side, top, crumb).
http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/baguette/media/20151228VermontSDKombuchaStyle-Crumb_zpslcds6zkv.jpg.html
That is very disconcerting as I have just recently found a 'work around' to finally get the images to appear on these TFL pages (on my computer, anyway). You wouldn't believe the hoops I have to jump thru to do so, but it works to some degree. Maybe there is a better way and I will soon try to refine that process.
Here is the long answer.
A friend introduced me to Kombucha a year or so ago. The first one I had was Ginger infused, and after trying at least another 6 flavors, that is still my favorite. Kombucha (as you probably know), is slightly sweet, slightly tart, slightly effervescent and full of active probiotics.
Apparently, it is a healthy alternative to soda pop (or whatever you might call it in the UK). I don't drink much soda pop at all, but I would drink this stuff daily if I had a supply that didn't cost me $5 a bottle. So I am in the process of learning how to brew it.
What I did was go to my local 'WholeFoods' store and looked for a bottle of plain, unflavored Kombucha that had some semblance of a 'SCOBY' in it (Symbiotic Culture Of Bacteria and Yeast). News flash. Sounds a lot like a sourdough culture to me.
I took it home (poured off the top half and drank it) and put the rest in a 2 quart Mason jar with the prescribed sweet tea (four regular black tea bags [Tetley's British, of course] brewed and cooled with 1/2 cup of plain white sugar for this size batch sufficient to fill the jar).
I secured a paper towel lid with a rubberband and I put it in a warm dark place (cabinet over the fridge) and I ignored it for 2 weeks as recommended. They say not to disturb it during this time and I didn't so much as look at it. All right, maybe a peek now and then, but no touch.
After 10 or 12 days I took a look and lo and behold there was this very wierd looking SCOBY floating on top. Reminds me of a creature from the sea or perhaps some strange sex toy.
It's alive I tell you, it's alive. A very wild thing indeed.
I am no expert yet on how to proceed to brew, infuse and perhaps bottle for consumption, but I am in the process of learning. I have found out a few things however.
During the (let's call it 2 weeks) initial brew, the SCOBY grew from a flimsy coin sized baby to a hamburger patty size. The sugar was gone and the resultant brew was very much like vinegar. It would not be something I would drink. BTW, apparently it eats the caffeine in the tea as well as the sugar.
So I did as instructed and made a new batch of sweet tea to feed it (with the addition of about 1/4 of the first brew, for reasons of acidity and microbio health).
Then I took some of the remaining brew and tried to build a starter with it as one would normally do (with say, Rye and water), altho I used AP flour and brew at 100% hydration.
This concoction teased me for a week or so, occassionally showing signs of life, but then just as quickly, going dormant. I think it was just too acidic to thrive.
By the time I gave up on it, my second brew was pretty mature. However, it still had some sweet to it and was not so acidic as vinegar. So, I started a 'starter' again with some of that.
This attempt was pretty explosive with activity. On day three I gave it it's first official 'feed' and within a few hours, it was over 150% risen and looking like it wanted to become dough.
So I took 300g (yeah, I stepped on the recipe again) but I compensated to kept the Vermont recipe totals accurate.
It worked out quite well. I thought it was going to be more like a Yeast Water levain, as it was sweet at the start and not sour to the taste, but in fact the bread did have a significant sour and I suppose could be manipulated like a normal starter might be.
By the way, I re-fed the remainder of my starter and it took off quite well again. At about 133% increase, I put it in the fridge like a normal starter. I will bake with it again shortly and let you know if it is a sustainable entity.
I've got a lot to learn about the process as well as the flavor, but I think it's a worthwhile experiment for the moment. I'll let you know if I learn anything new.
Thanks for asking.
dobie
I'm gonna check when I get home. Think my work computer is playing up and/or blocked.
I few years ago I grew a SCOBY from a bit of kombucha, tea and sugar. It I left it for ages and it grew so big I couldn't get it out of the jar. I abandoned my kombucha project to concentrate on sourdough. With my long hours at work and other commitments I couldn't concentrate on both of them. But I do love this idea of a kombucha starter and going to buy myself a bottle on the way home for a weekend bake. I'll treat it exactly like yeast water.
Nice, exciting new project.
That's a good idea Abe, let me know how it works out.
I had a feeling you were Kombucha experienced. And as the saying goes, 'You better stand back girls, there's no telling how big this thing's gonna get'.
Oh, and please let me know if the pics show up.
Thanks
dobie
I'm far from kombucha experienced. It was an idea I had and only got as far as growing a whopper of a SCOBY. If I could I'd have a lab at home and be making kombucha, sourdoughs, beer, liquours etc. But one needs facilities and time. I learned about kombucha and found some to try then on a whim I brewed some strong tea, added sugar and a little kombucha then waited. Just to see... But I do believe making the actual drink should be done carefully as if not done correctly there can be toxicity.
Photos are now showing. You got good oven spring with a less open crumb. Looks very nice and tasty. That crust is something I always aim for. Such colour!
I'll probably do a Levain de Campagne but alter the recipe so the flour within the kombucha starter is 20%. Do an all night (12+ hours) for the building of the starter then the rest by feel. My usual shop closed early because of the time of year so I'll make a special trip to the whole foods in Piccadilly Circus tomorrow lunchtime. I know they'll have some there.
Abe
I don't know what you were thinking, but I was just refering to how big your SCOBY got ;-)
And as a Kombucha rookie, I will be careful. I haven't heard of possible toxicity issues yet, but that's not to say I won't take care to do things right. At this point, I'm just happy that it grew and is alive (it's aIive I tell you, it's alive). A SCOBY is a pretty weird thing tho, isn't it.
Yes, the crumb is a little denser than I would have liked. The poke test looked good, but next time, I will take it a bit further.
It actually eats better than it looks. It's quite light and tender. In fact, Girl has almost finished it off for breakfast, lunch and dinner (which is not normal) and her store bought 'Artisan' loaf is sitting there sad and staling with it's poor little oatmealed crust unmolested. I think I only made it yesterday, so that's pretty quick for just the two of us.
I baked it in a hot DO, preheated to 525F. This time, when I put it in (and turned the heat down to 475F) I left it alone with the lid on for a full 30 minutes. Then lid off, temp down to 435F, but convection now on. After 15 minutes of that, I put it bare assed on the rack with the oven down to 400F convection for the final 15 minutes. It was 207F internal at that point.
The crust is delicious. And how about those flying ears, huh? I must be the king of scoring. Just kidding, but getting more aggressive with it has been working out well.
I wonder where to go next, but I just might repeat the process while adding a little ground caraway to the dough. I love caraway and I really like this recipe as a base to work from and am curious how the starter (that has now been in the fridge for a day) will respond. At that point it would be a 'true' starter in it's own right (if it behaves).
We'll see. I'll let you know.
I think your plan for the Levain de Campagne is sound. I can't wait to hear (or see) how it comes out. Oh, and 'Piccadilly Circus tomorrow lunchtime', how interesting.
dobie
ps - glad the pics showed up. I was worried.
I though Kombucha was a famous Japanese Sumo Wrestler who was born in Hawaii. Oh well. Now Lucy has another starter project to play with. It sure made a fine loaf of bread. It sprang, bloomed and browned very well....and it is exotic!! Well done and happy baking dobie.
Thanks dbm
If you try it, let me know how you like it.
Not sure what I'll do next with it, but I'll keep you posted.
dobie