The Fresh Loaf

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Tough crumb

Nev's picture
Nev

Tough crumb

Hi all, 

I have noticed recently that my bread (baguettes and boules) have a tough and chewy crumb. I have used various brands of strong bread flour (between 11 and 12g protein content) and mix the dough in a KA mixer until it passes the window pane test (around 10 mins). I let the dough rise at room temperature for about 1 hour. I then pre-shape and then form the final shape(s). I finally let the dough rise for a further hour before baking on a domestic oven at 230 degrees celsius.

The bread looks great but the crumb is quite tough and chewy. Can anyone offer advice. 

BTW, I usually go for around 70% hydration and use just flour, water and easy bake dry yeast.

 

Cheers,

Nev.

 

KathyF's picture
KathyF

I would suggest that you try using all-purpose flour instead.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

If you use AP flour and develop the gluten to windowpane ( which also develops the starch that fills the window), your crumb will become more feathery and less chewy. Just make sure to use a quality unbleached AP flour. I am in the US and I have no problem with Gold Medal, Pillsbury, King Arthur, Dakota Maid, Ceresota, Robin Hood and Sam's Club. 

IMO, High gluten flour insures any baker can achieve a lofty loaf, even if they don't windowpane the dough. Bakeries also love the higher gluten because it reduces production time. The trade off is a chewier texture. So try a flour with LESS gluten but develop the gluten and starch structure properly. You will not be disappointed.

Nev's picture
Nev

Thanks very much for your advice. What you're saying makes sense and will give it a go. I am based in the UK and I believe our AP flour has a much lower protein content than in the US. I believe ours typically contains between 7 and 9 grammes of protein. Would you stick with the KA mixer with dough hook or would you hand knead?

Cheers!

nomolosca's picture
nomolosca

It sounds like you'd benefit from decreasing most of your work. Use less yeast and mix for maybe half the time you're mixing. Replace the yeast and mixing time with extended fermentation and stretch-and-folds.

Nev's picture
Nev

I like the sound of that. How often would you do S & F and over what period? 

nomolosca's picture
nomolosca

I'd recommend two or three S&F over two to three hours, depending on strength achieved in mixing and dough temperature. You can lower your yeast quantity to .2%-.3% of flour weight. I use KA AP flour, which is 11.7% protein. This should be fine at 70% hydration (or higher, I generally go about 75%).

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

Even using part water, part milk will soften it somewhat but adding butter or lard will give you a soft crust.

Our plain flour is lower in protein than US AP flour but mixing some plain flour with your bread flour would probably help.

What flour are you using at the moment?

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I believe it will come down to personal preference. The important thing to pay attention to is that whatever method you use develops the dough to windowpane.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

Is the crust thick, or just tough? Are you steaming the oven? Are you venting the oven for the last 5 minutes or so? Have you tried reheating the bread before eating it? I assume you are letting it cool enough first. Are you checking the internal temperature of the bread for doneness? Have you tried baking it longer?

Nev's picture
Nev

Is the crust thick, or just tough? A little tough but not so thick.

Are you steaming the oven? I pour boiling water in a loaf tin just before baking. I then give a couple sprays of water (just a fine mist)

Are you venting the oven for the last 5 minutes or so? No 

Have you tried reheating the bread before eating it? Yes. And it almost returns the crumb to its original state. Problem is, the crumb is tough the moment the bread is ready to eat.

I assume you are letting it cool enough first. Yes. I usually bake 3 at a time. I try one after 5 mins because I just can't wait but leave the others the fully cool.

Are you checking the internal temperature of the bread for doneness? No

Have you tried baking it longer? I bake 3 at 240 degrees celsius for between 20 to 25 mins. By this time the exterior is pretty well done.

I have dough rising right now and plan to use my usual method to make some baguettes this evening. I will take some pics and post for anyone who is interested to comment.

Cheers! 

Nev's picture
Nev

Pic 1

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

"I bake 3 at 240 degrees celsius for between 20 to 25 mins."

A bit hot for not very long.

It's a good idea to start the loaves at the highest temperature your oven can manage but I'd say that's a bit hot for the whole bake and may be why the crust's coming out so tough. Try turning the oven down to around 200-210 after five minutes and baking for longer.

Also, are you using a fan oven? If so, the hot draught may be drying the crust out. Try using radiant heat only.

How much hot water are you putting in the tin? You only need steam for the first five minutes or so. If it's lasting longer that would coarsen the crust.

Nev's picture
Nev

Interesting points. Well, until recently I kept the tin filled with water in the oven throughout the bake. Oops! 

This evening I made 3 changes:

1. Kneaded by hand to window pane (around 20 mins)

2. Preheated oven to 250 degrees celsius.

3. Reduced heat to 210 after 5 mins and removed tin with water.

There was a definite difference in texture. The crust was crispier and the crumb was much lighter, a little chewy but not tough.

Thanks for your advice. It has certainly made a difference. I am keen to give AP flour a go as I strive for an even lighter and fluffier crumb. 

 

To be honest I not certain what an authentic baguette should taste like.... I've never tried one!

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

How long did you bake at 210°C for?

Rather than putting a tin with water in and then taking it out after five minutes, try putting the tin in empty and throwing about 100cc (around an espresso cup full) of water into it when the bread goes in, then another after a couple of minutes. That'll give you plenty of steam, and can be done fast enough not to let too much heat out. You can then leave the tin in the oven for the rest of the bake. Be careful, obviously, but it's easily doable without scalding yourself with a little thought and preparation.

A lighter and fluffier crumb can be had. I'd start by adding more time to your recipe and working the dough less but several times during the bulk ferment. Look into 'stretch and fold'.

If you're trying to make baguettes, you'll find plenty of advice hereabouts. And plenty of people trying to figure out why they can't quite get it right, as well. ;-)

Nev's picture
Nev

I baked at 210°C for around 20 - 25 mins, until the crust looked just right. I like your idea regarding the steam production. I feel i still might be using too much steam, although I am still not entirely sure what the consequences are. 

Regarding your 'more time' suggestion, I have never mastered the S & F or even the no knead method. I have a no knead dough currently in its 12th hour of bulk fermentation. It's risen beautifully and looks amazing with its irregular holes and bubbly consistency. Problem is I always seem to demolish the holes and convert the dough into a floury mess which results in a very disappointing final product. Can you offer any advice on this? I am sure the mistake i am making is in the handling of the dough. When the dough is released from the container onto a floury worktop, I stand there looking at it, wondering what to do next. Pre-shaping a bubbly mass doesn't seem to work and i have also read that adding too much flour at this stage can lead to toughness or splitting in the final product. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated.

Cheers!

KathyF's picture
KathyF

Some deflation of the no-knead dough is expected. You do a few folds to give the loaf some structure and then let it rise again before cooking like in this video. Personally, I found I preferred the almost no-knead method which involves a few kneads, but is still as easy as the no-knead method.

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

A quick blast in the first few minutes is all you need. After that, it just stops the bread baking properly and gives you that hard, chewy crust.

Can't help with the no-knead as I've only tried it once. Also, I prefer the holes in my crumb to be too small to reach both sides of the slice, so I'm not qualified to advise on holey loaves.

Stretch and fold doesn't need much mastering. It's an extremely simple and effective dough handling technique, well within the capabilities of anyone who can fold a tea towel.