Submitted by LLM777 on October 2, 2007 - 8:34am
Are there any techinques/tips to improve "bread machine bread" and make it more "hand-made"? For me, it's simply convienent and time saving to use the machine but I'm sure there are vast improvements that can be made. Could following a machine recipe and an overnight rise in the frig and then baking it next day be helpful? I have tried to put "bread by hand" recipes in the machine but they are always too soggy/sticky and don't mix well. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.
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Re: Improving Bread Machines?
In my experience you can make any bread machine recipe on the Dough setting, then take the dough out and do the 2nd rise, shaping, and proofing by hand and bake it in the oven (pan or stone as appropriate for the recipe). This is how I make my hamburger buns and I often do ryes this way when I have less time and don't want to deal with the stickiness.
As far as improving the quality when you bake it all the way through in the bread machine, I have tried mixing a poolish with the water and some of the flour and leaving it in the bucket overnight. When it mixes right then this works great; when it doesn't mix right you end up with the family holding a lump of cooked dough and glaring at you at 7 AM ;-( Other than that I have tried adding seeds (plus water) - that usually works; adding some whole grain flour (ususally works); various types of oils, etc. Realistically though a bread machine bread will always be soft and moist - that is what the machine is designed to do. My family likes that though so it works out for them, and I can then blast my artisan crusts until you need a chain saw to cut them.
Rustic European Breads from Your Bread Machine by Eckhardt and Butts (ISBN 0385477775) is out of print but available from the library or used. It has a lot of recipes for baking in the bread machine and/or shaping and baking in the oven.
HTH.
sPh
Improving Bread Machine bread?
If you already have a bread machine, then you must already be making bread. What’s wrong with doing a little bit of experimentation! Use the dough maker and add some of the things you like that the Bread machine book doesn't mention. I add 1/2 cup of linseed’s + 1/4 cup sunflower seeds +15ml of water extra + olive oil instead of using butter. As sphealey mentioned take the dough out and do the 2nd rise, shaping and proofing by hand then bake it in the oven (pan or stone as appropriate for the recipe). You will make a few mistakes, we all do but I've never made a loaf of bread yet, that wasn't edible. Grin! Who knows you may come up with the super loaf of all times.
Happy baking. Joe.
Thank you for the comments
Thank you for the comments and, yes, I have been baking bread for a few years using the bread machine. I even grind my own wheat now but I've experimented with the "hand made" bread and it seems it has a slightly different texture and taste than the machine gives. I am very new to the techniques of hand made bread and the few times I have tried it, it seems to take a lot more attention than just putting the ingredients in the machine. :) I also homeschool, which is time intensive, and I love cooking everything from scatch; I am just spoiled by the convienence of the bread machine. I was wondering if it is possible to get those big holes and refined taste that "hand made" seems to give. Thank you again for your comments.
More tips for better bread machine bread...
In your first message you asked: "Could following a machine recipe and an overnight rise in the frig and then baking it next day be helpful?"and I wanted to answer that yes, doing that makes a big difference, giving the flavors of the dough time to mature. I mix all my bread in the bread machine, and almost always either use some sort of preferment (sponge/poolish/biga) or retard the dough in the fridge overnight -- sometimes both, depending on how I'm fitting the bread into my schedule.
Another reason for the difference in flavor between bread machine and hand-made bread is that bread machine recipes use way too much yeast, in order to make the bread rise on schedule for the machine. For the best flavor, you want to use as little yeast as you can get away with, and let the bread rise extra time to compensate. The longer rise gives time for the flour and yeast enzymes to make more flavors in the bread, and using less yeast gives you less of that over-yeasted bread machine flavor.
I put about 1/4 tsp of yeast in my pre-ferment, and then add another 1/2 tsp of yeast when I mix in the rest of the ingredients. I run the dough cycle, and then shape the loaf and let it rise until it's the right size to bake. One big advantage to the dough cycle is that you can let this last rise be as long as is needed to compensate for using less yeast -- though if you've done a preferment, it will usually rise quite nicely. I bake when poking the dough makes a dent that fills itself in about 2/3 of the way.
For bigger holes, make sure the dough is moist (forms a somewhat sticky ball when the machine is kneading, but slumps down pretty flat when the kneading stops). When you remove the risen dough from the machine, do so gently so you don't completely deflate it -- ditto for when you shape it. You might also try removing it from the machine just after kneading, and letting it rise in a shallow greased bowl -- easier to get it out without deflating it completely.
I also second the recommendation for _Rustic European Breads from your Bread Machine_ by Eckhardt and Butts. Another good book that uses preferments and shaping outside the machine is one by Jennie Shapter called (same book, different editions) _Bread Machine: how to prepare and bake the perfect loaf_ or_The Ultimate Bread Machine Cookbook_ (don't confuse with the book by Tom Lacalamita by the same name). I enjoy the Shapter book because of the visuals: excellent pictures of the steps to take and lovely pics of the finished breads. These two are my "desert island" bread machine books...
Great tips
I will definitely do this. Thank you for the information; it was most helpful.
Biga method
Similarly to other suggestions, I imployed the biga (preferment) method in bread machine recipes.
Note: the total amount of yeast should be reduced from the regular recipe.
I made the big the night before, about 50% in hydration (flour about 200g) with 1/4 teaspoon of yeast or less. In a bowl just mixed them with a spoon or hand. Covered.
Next morning, I teared the biga (now slopy) into pieces and mixed with the reset ingredients, including another 140 g flour (yeast should be placed on top of flour, not touching any liquid, about 1/2 teaspoon). Set the timer such that it would be done when I got home around 7:30pm.
preferments
I have the rustic book on reserve at the library and hopefully it will help me with the preferments because I have no idea how to convert my current recipes to the biga method you are descibing. I am certainly looking forward to learning though.
Thank you.
Re: preferments, bigas, and bread machines
I have made some tasty soft breads in the bread machine with preferments, bigas, and sourdough starters (in fact I have a picture of a semi-sourdough I made this weekend that I need to upload and post).
The problem for me comes with the overnight cycle. My family would prefer that the bread be fresh in the morning, and in terms of timing and quality that works well. But I can't get the preferments to work when I use the timer; they fail to mix well with the remaining dry ingredients when the cycle starts at 3 AM and the result is a mess of baked lumps. When I run the machne during the day I can poke the mix a bit with a spatula and remove the doughball for a few quick kneads if necessary - but I ain't gettin up at 3:15 AM to do that!
Has anyone had success using poolish in the overnight cycle of their machine? I have a Zorij 2-paddle type.
Thanks.
sPh
re: bread machine rustic cookbook
I recently received the Rustic European Breads cookbook that was recommended in this post and I just wanted to say it is exactly what I was looking for. I've already made bread and a few starters and poolish(s). I was not able to get the Shapter book from the library so I will have to order that along with my own copy of the Rustic book. I would definitely recommend it to get over the bread machine blahs. Thanks for the recommendations!
? Improving Bread Machine Breads
I have to 3rd that recommendation for the Rustic European Breads from your bread machine book by Eckhardt and Butts. It's a book I recommend to my students in my ABM bread making classes. Sorry to learn it's out of print as it's a great book and each recipe is better than the last, besides the fact that these ladies give some very good info on the entire breadmaking process/ingredients/technique, etc. These ladies taught me a lot about bigas and preferments and starters. I've never used the overnight cycle in my Zo, and by experience I learned that you must chunk up a preferment to get it to incorporate well into your final dough (add it in little pieces). By the way, I never use instant/bread machine yeast either-I always use active dry and teach my students to do the same.
While I am hardly a master baker, I do make great bread and have often used my bread machine (ABM) as a helper when I am making a LOT of dough. I have had total success using listed ingredients in any recipe-remembering to layer them in ABM (liquids 1st, then sugar/sweetener & fats, then flour and adding yeast LAST). I never have a problem using DOUGH cycle, then oven baking as directed in recipe, and sometimes (such as for French bread) I will let dough rise a 3rd or 4th time in machine (just gently deflate it and let it rise again). You could even just chill your ABM dough overnight in fridge to help enhance flavor (then let it come to room temp before shaping & baking). Generally, this overnight chill will enhance any breads' flavor in my experience. I just read recently that bread machines are making a semi-comeback-I always tell my students that it's a very useful tool-especially if you don't own a heavy duty stand mixer (I call my Zo a KitchenAid with heat).
Good luck with your breadmaking!
Good info, everyone! Thanks.
Little by little I have been trying different approaches to using my Zoj bread machine, too. So thank you for all the tips and ideas. Hensberger's bread machine book (which I like) outlines some different ways to use biga, poolishes, and starters (fresh mixed and aged overnight) that have worked for us, although I haven't tried to use them in the overnight cycle.
I have found the 'homemade' cycle on our Zoj very useful. It allows one to adjust the times for the kneading, resting, etc. for a more custom setting. And the default 'homemade' setting is designed for making 'french bread' they say. This is an easy way to get a little more artisanal loaf of bread from the machine I think. But I've never gotten the big chewy holes in our bread.
I admit since I bought our new Kitchen Aid convection double ovens with a "Bread Proofing" setting I have been taking the dough out of the BM after mixing to let rise in my (proofing) oven, once or twice, or even a third rising, and then baking it off on a stone or in specialty pans in a very hot oven.
(The KA oven says the proofing temp is 100 degrees, so if I want a slower cooler rise (for more flavor) , I start it off at 1oo for a few minutes and then shut if off. We have had some very nice loaves of bread using the BM along with the KA ovens.)
I have been reading the various TFL blogs and FAQs on this site, and especially looking at some of the videos and I am interested to try the 'folding' approach soon (not using the BM). They say its easy and I like that idea!
Dough Experiments
I've pulled out the ole bread machine again, and been doing some experimenting with it. Maybe it's the humidity in our area lately (lots of rain here in north central Texas), but I have found that by reducing the amount of liquid in the recipe (ie. instead of 1 1/2 cups, I use 1 1/3 cups), and increasing the flour from 3 1/2 cups to 4 cups has improved the consisitancy. I also set the machine for dough cycle, and set a timer for 40 minutes. Then, I reset the machine for dough cycle again, and let it go through the full kneading cycle ( I timed mine at 50 minutes). I've found that the machine just doesn't knead it enough on just the time allotted.
I don't let it rise in the machine... there just isn't enough room in there for it to fully rise. It usually falls when it reaches the lid, and the lid pops open. I rise my dough in a oiled bowl in the oven with the light on.
Since I've found this combination, my bread has come out closer to what I expect as a great loaf of bread.
I've asked Santa for a Kitchen Aid stand mixer with all the frills. Hopefully, that will make life easier for me.