Knead for 10"??
My previous efforts (10 years ago) at bread-making had always been with recipes. I distinctly remember using all the flour that was called for, having to let the dough rise til doubled, and most especially 'knead(ing) for 10 minutes.' Although I was pleased then, looking back, I was only a beginner.
Fast-forward: Recently I've taken up baking bread again, with a passion (obsession?). Reading, thinking, experimenting, blogs like TFL - have taken me to a whole new level. I usually make a batch or two of dough, let it sit and hydrate, and refrigerate it until I decide to bake; the results have been wonderful. I knead for a minute or two here and there in the process. Current task is learning how to make my loaves beautiful.
My niece and daughter-in-law have caught the obsession, but they are beginners yet. As I teach them (and my friends at church) the basics, I am curious. Why do all bread recipes say 'knead for 10 minutes"? I never do that anymore. Is it just the older way of doing it? Does it really develop the gluten, as claimed? My niece told me she uses her bread machine because "I am just not as strong as you" -- to knead for 10 minutes, she meant.
I just recently begun making bread but, in my limited experience, it takes me way longer than 10 minutes to knead by hand.
Yesterday I started an 80% hydration simple white sourdough and I spent at least 20 minutes until I was satisfied with the elasticity and resistance of the dough.
I'd suggest you just knead one dough for way longer than you'd imagine and pay close attention to how the dough changes. Then use those observations for future reference.
I know in my case I am able to identify four stages:
"initial wet porridge"
"sticky, manageable but the gluten surface breaks all the time"
"gluten surface starts lasting, but the dough becomes much stickier and unmanageable"
"everything becomes elastic and clean (steals back all dough residues from surface and fingers)."
The strangest reaction was discovering that stickiness goes high->low->high->low.
Till gluten formation, i.e. till ready, not for 10 minutes pre se. Recipes, and ways of doing things, are going to be more precise but one has to go by feel too. If you knead a little then rest then knead a little more etc is one way of doing it. One could knead at the beginning or incorporate it through the bulk fermentation... Or if the dough is very high hydration then stretch and folds. Kneading and resting both help. No knead recipes use time alone to develop gluten. If you use a large amount of yeast and time alone to develop the gluten then the yeast might run out of food before the gluten has time to develop. that's where kneading comes into it to bring it altogether in good time.
There's no one definite way of doing things.
thanks to all of you for the gluten/ knead 10" comments. It helped clarify the science behind it. I was just so curious. I just don't see folks 300 years ago kneading for 10 or waiting til it's exactly doubled in size. Onward!!
Hmmm - thanks. Currently I am not kneading at all (well, scarcely at all) with very good results.
In fact you don't have to knead at all, you can just stretch and fold your dough (like a letter fold) at 20-60 minute intervals.
IMO it's all about the desired result: how (and how much) you knead will, along with the kind of flour you use, dramatically affect the color and texture of the finished crumb.
If you are actually kneading the dough by hand, I agree with Thanshin: you know what you're doing, you can finish kneading in 10 min, but often it can take longer, especially for beginners. This is where stretch-and-fold is great, because there is so little exertion.
Are a good way of developing the gluten when kneading isn't easy because it's too high hydration. Will also produce a different type of crumb which the hydration affects as well. Lower hydration doughs are easier to develop gluten by kneading and need less time. I tend to keep my doughs at a lower hydration so I can knead by hand for a few minutes then leave it to bulk ferment undisturbed.
Mix the yeast with some warm water...
Make a well in the flour, pour the water in...
Flour the work surface...
Knead for 10 minutes...
Tap the bottom of the loaf...
These, and others, are included in bread recipes because they've always been included in bread recipes.
Number one is, apparently, only necessary with a certain type of yeast that stays crunchy otherwise. (You learn something every day!)
Number two dates from the days when the instructions were for making a week's bread for a large household. Lacking a large enough bowl, the flour would be tipped on the table, so a well in the flour was necessary to stop the water pouring off the table.
Number three makes no sense when you're working dough as having it adhere to the work surface is to your advantage.
Number four has been covered by others.
Number five is, well, I don't know where that came from but a loaf can be fifteen or twenty minutes from baked and still sound 'hollow' (whatever that means to someone who's never heard a hollow loaf) when tapped on the bottom.
Yes, indeed, the mantra it is. That is what I was thinking through: yeast/ gluten/ time. Great blog, chat room. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give me feedback.