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Whey too many questions

dobie's picture
dobie

Whey too many questions

I have this wonderful whey in my fridge from making ricotta and having searched and read many posts in TFL, I've got a few questions.

I've read that there is 'sweet' and there is 'sour (or acidic)' whey. I taste mine and it doesn't seem significantly one way or the other. I used 1/3 cup white wine vinegar to one half gallon of milk at 180F. Should this be sweet or acidic (I would think the later)? Is it just that the flavors escape my pallete (I taste both, but very subtlely)?

When used in a recipe (sourdough in particular) might the sweet or acidic qualities rear their heads and affect my bake, whether I can taste them or not? If so, how so?

dobie

drogon's picture
drogon

Just that. Flour, whey, salt, bicarb. Into a hot oven and 25-30 minutes later enjoy.

-Gordon

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

separate the curds from the whey using lemon juice,  Since there are no LAB fermenting this whey is sweeter than when i make yogurt and the Lab have been fermenting for 24 hours.  Both make great bread and i make no changes to my recipes - just substitute the whey for the dough liquid. 

Isn't ricotta made from the left over whey from making cheese - ricotta means re cooked?

Happy baking with whey

dobie's picture
dobie

Thanks Gordon and dabrownman - you both agree, just use the whey in place of the liquid, even in a sourdough. I will try that. Actually, I'm already trying that, but I won't have results until tomorrow.

dabrownman, I've always heard the same thing about how ricotta is made. But the folks at cheesemaking.com are saying 'Ricotta is a heat and acid precipitated cheese that can be made from whole or skim milk. When made from a mixture of milk and whey (or whey alone), it is called Ricotone.'

I don't have any verification on that, but she says she learned the process from native Italian cheesemakers.

Some quick info off the website - 'Bob and Ricki Carroll (owners/operators) ..., Cheesemaking Made Easy, written by Bob in 1981, was later expanded by Ricki, renamed Home Cheese Making, and has become a bible for home and artisanal cheese makers'.

Personally, when I make Ricotta, I use whole milk to 180F, held at temp for 30 minutes and then dump in (while gently wisking) 1/3 cup lemon juice or vinegar per 1/2 gallon milk. Set out at room temp for 30 minutes and strain to desired consistancy. Works great every time.

I've made it from whey a long time ago. I don't remember the process but I do remember the yield was minimal.

cheesemaking.com does it a little differently. They use citric acid, added to cold milk and heat to 190-195F. I will try that next time, just to see.

When you make yogurt, do you strain it?

Thanks for the reply.

dobie

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Greek Yogurt was just becoming all the rage.  I started to sieve out the yogurt in the fridge after making it when i found out that Greek Yogurt was just thicker regular yogurt with more whey removed. Now my yogurt ,akimng is coo again adn bread making is better for it.

My grandfather retired from Meadow Gold milk and made cheese and ricotta for about forever.My dad only worked there for a few years and said he made 'millions' of pounds of cottage cheese a slightly different thing.

What you are doing is making the first step of home made mozzarella cheese, something everyone should do if they ever want to make decent pizza:-). All you have to do is take some very hot water, put on your asbestos hands and pull your cheese into mozzarella.  The main reason people don't re cook the whey from cheese making to make real ricotta is because, like you say, the output doesn't make it worth the effort but with a commercial cheese maker handling tons and tons of whey they would flush down the drain,  it makes sense to re cook it and make some more very expensive ricotta cheese cheese out of it,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricotta

This is one time where you can see where we were both right in American many no longer recook the whey to make ricotta.  Another word that has lost its meaning :-)

Happy Baking 

drogon's picture
drogon

... well I'd not personally use it in a sourdough, but as it's slightly acidic then it'll make a good liquid for a soda bread as it'll react with the bicarb to rise the dough. Buttermilk would be the traditional additive - the whey left over from making butter, but I imagine the whey left over from making cheese is not that dissimilar. I've used a mix of yogurt & milk in the past too.

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Thanks Gordon -

The only soda bread I make with any regularity is our US style Corn Bread (50/50% corn meal and AP). The recipe calls for the liquid to be 50/50% water and milk (egg, sugar, oil & salt). It's very good with chili.

At times I have made it with 50% yogurt and at other times 50% milk soured with lemon juice for an hour or so. Both seemed to give a bit of a boost to rise and tenderness (not that the original recipe needed it) as well as a nice bit of tart, which I liked very much.

I will make it in the next day or so and use whey in total for the liquid.

Thanks for the advice.

I just pulled some sourdough baguettes out of the oven that used 25% whey for liquid at 71% hydration. They look pretty good altho a little over-proofed.

Got some sourdough dinner rolls in the oven that used !00% whey for liquid (minus the levain) and they are looking pretty good as well. I'll let you know how they really came out once I break into them.

dobie

dobie's picture
dobie

Are you saying that when we make Ricotta we could further develope that into Mozzorella? That would be wonderful.

I've never made Mozzorella but have seen numerous videos on it and it seems very do-able. But I thought you needed rennet and enzymes to get a proper curd. Have you made it?

Not to disregard all else you said which I either agree with or have learned from. While I still don't know about the 'Ricotone' statement from cheesemaking.com I will research it further just because I'm curious. I haven't completed reading the wiki-Ricotta page but I will.

Thanks

dobie

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

make curds with citric acid, vinegar or lemon juice but the curds you want are better made with a bit of citric acid and rennet so the mix isn't so acidic.  Acid makes the curd more brittle and soft and they don't stretch well when heated later. to make mozz or even hard cheese because they are too soft,  Rennet is easy to get on Amazon, some health food stores and some grocery stores.  It is easier to make with the microwave too.

You will find ricotone mentioned in the wiki link,

dobie's picture
dobie

dabrownman -

Yes, I found that out. I took some of that fresh ricotta and drained it a little more, brought it up to 135F in the microwave as some recipe called for and I couldn't make it stretch worth a damn. It lost it's original fluffyness in the process, but is still quite good in dishes.

Yes, my local 'natural' foods store sells a little vial of vegetable rennet for 5 or 6 bucks, not too bad to have something immediate to play with. I will get some soon. I've used it before with good results making feta and a few other soft or 'fresh' cheeses.

I also found a local farm that sells their own raw milk (NYS permit) for $12 a half gallon. Pretty pricey, but maybe someday when my cheesemaking skills deserve it.

One thing I learned in my few experiments was that (particularly for a novice) the times, temps and quantities of recipes are very important towards success. Even minor variations can spell failure (it might be edible, but it won't be what you expected).

Brewing bread, cheese, beer or wine (and as someone recently commented 'compost') all involve similar fungi, microbes and processes.

And now, back to bread.