The Fresh Loaf

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Niecco’s Sourdough Pizza Crust and Focaccia

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Niecco’s Sourdough Pizza Crust and Focaccia

Today was one of those days I will always remember.  Nearly right up there with getting married, the birth of The Baby and anything else I can remember.  I got to see my pizza dough being prepared and baked in a wood fired oven by a real pizza master - Niecco Capone of Pomo Pizzeria Napoletana.

 

When Nico said he would bake off some of my pizza when my wife and I ate there this past Saturday I was shocked and so excited I couldn’t sleep for 2 days.  The oven is not the best of the best Niecco told me saying the flagship Pomo’s in Scottsdale has the primo of the primo ovens he has ever baked in.  I can’t imagine a better oven than this one so now I have to go up there and check it out

 

The 6 whole grains.

When I read that Pomo only bakes sourdough crust, very unusual, 3 mm thick max, thin and crispy in the style of Naples with a thin tangy sauce, not too much cheese (buffalo Mozzarella) and had opened a place in Gilbert, AZ ……..we had to go.  They make pizza just the way I had it in Naples and my very favorite by a wide margin.  Plus, Terry (the restaurant manager), Niecco and everyone else we came into contact with while there were gracious, smiling, enjoying their work and their customers.

 

25% extraction left and 75% extraction whole 6 grains right. 

Now that the baking is done I have to say it turned out even better than I could have hoped and I had high expectations.  It was one of the nest baking experiences ever.  Watching Niedco stretch my dough so easily over the edge of granite counter and stretch it out perfectly was awe inspiring – I couldn’t even take a picture of him doing it – it was just unbelievable how easy he made it all look – No Muss No Fuss Pizza Crust.

 

10 g of 6 week retarded rye sour starter left.

The oven was at 950 F this morning and the kitchen had finished up the stuff they make in the oven early in the day before the restaurant opens…. like peppers and onions etc.  I knew the dough I brought had to be as good as I can make so I wouldn’t look like a total doofus – but I didn‘t have time to sprout any grains having only 1 1/2 days to make the dough from Saturday night.

 

The levain 2 hours after the 4th feeding of all the 25% extraction hard bits- 14 hours total.

I also wanted to make a dough that they weren’t used to to make it a bit interesting for them, plus being different was needed because there is no way I’m going to make a better dough than their standard SD one.   Niecco told me that the dough we had on Saturday night was a young dough so it wasn’t as sour as it is now on Monday when the flavor has fully developed.  Now I understand why it was so sweet and not as sour as I expected.

 

Levain left hits the autolyse.

My girls like the SD crust we make at home the best when it has no more than 20% whole grains and the Focaccia Romana version with garlic olive oil, fresh rosemary and sun dried tomatoes in the dough is still their favorite.  Lucy then came up thigh a suitable flout blend that would be tasty, Italian and also have some low gluten locally grown soft white wheat in it.  There is nothing worse than pizza dough that isn’t extensible enough and a pain to stretch thin because it is too elastic ……or even worse tears.

 

Re-hydrated sun dried tomatoes, garlic infused olive oil and fresh rosemary added to  half the dough.

Lucy came up with the whole grain Italian Farro blend of einkorn, emmer and spelt to go along with he local Pima Indian grown Pima Club and Sonoran White from Ramona Farms.  The 6th whole grains was the hard red winter wheat and we ignored the 6 g of whole rye in the rye sour starter which would have made it 7 whole grains.

 

After 1st set of 4 slap abd folds.

We sifted out the 255 hard bits from the whole grains after grinding and decided to do something new for this special pizza  dough and reserved them for later rather than immediately feeding it to the rye starter to make the levain.

 

Both crusts right before the 21 hour retard in the fridge.

Instead of our usual 3 stage levain build of 4 hours each, we added a 4th stage which was the entire 25% extracted hard bits we had reserved - with no additional water,  Once the levain doubled after the 3rd build we added the hard bits and let it double again – it only took 2 hours and ensured the levain would be in top form.\

 

Last night's AZ sunset on fire like Nico's pizza oven!

We decided on the 4th build because we didn’t have time for a 24 hour cold retard of the levain as per our usual process to bring out the sour.  We used half LaFama AP and half Winco High Gluten for the white flours with the 75% extraction 6 grain in the dough.  We were going for a mix of low and high protein to fit the pizza profile for dough.

 

 Niecco with the plain cheese white pizza right before it hits the heat.

We autolysed the dough flour and water for 1 hour with the Pink Himalayan sea salt sprinkled on top.  Once the levain hit the mix, we do 3 sets of 30 slap and folds on 30 minutes intervals and the split the dough in half to have a white dough and then added the garlic oil, squeezed dry re-hydrated sun dried tomatoes and the fresh rosemary for the Focaccia Romana half.

 

Here is the plain pizza coming out of the oven after about a minute,

We did 3 more sets of 4 slap and folds on 30 minute intervals for each half, then placed them in a and oiled bowl covered in plastic for a 21 hour cold retard in the fridge.  We took the dough out of the fridge and folded it from the compass points 3 hours before heading over to Pomo’s which is only 10 minutes away from home.

 

Niecco stretched his now namesake crust by pulling it down 90 degrees over the edge of that granite - Amazing!

I supplied the sauce and cheese blend because I wanted to see how the oven as the only change affected the looks and taste.  The Focaccia Romana pizza had my thin pepperoni on it as the only addition to the sauce and cheese white crust pizza. 

Niecco putting the focaccia pepperoni pizza in the oven.

Niecco boxed up the white version when it came out of the oven saying he didn’t want to cur it so that I could reheat it in the oven for dinner tonight with the wife so we didn’t get a taste but I wanted him to taste the Focaccia Romana one with pepperoni anyway.

 

Master of the 30 second into the bake spin to even out the bake.

Both pizzas baked in about a minute but I didn’t think to time them.  I’ve never been able to get the spring, lift and bottom of the crust baked properly before at home but both of these really puffed themselves up well and browned beautifully. 

 

Niceco's pepperoni after the best minute of baking ever!

i When I tasted the FR pizza it was immediately the best pizza crust I had ever had and unlike anything I could ever make at home.  We have made a version of this many times but it isn’t the same at home.  There is a reason why traditional artisan bread can only be baked in a wood fired oven.  Niecco said it was a nice crust  which put a big smile on my face since he has tasted thousands of different crusts made by others as well as his own.

 

The bottom is perfectly baked and crispy.

But there is a better part, we got to talking about SD bread and he showed me a picture of his latest Forkish loaf made at home - really great spring and bloom with it coming out a near circle in cross section with a nice open crumb – very good indeed and he is just starting to bake bread with F,W,S&Y as his guide!

 

Super airy crust and very crisp. No folding possible or necessary - Yea!

I brought Nico a just refresh stash of my No Muss No Fuss Rye Sour Starter and quarters of my last 3 sprouted bakes plus a quarter of the Sprouted Westphalian Pumpernickel to taste – all frozen.

 

This oven makes any pizza want to jump right in there.

I said it was a shame that his beautiful oven never got below 750 F or anywhere near 500 F so we could bake some SD bread together in it and he said there is only 2 maybe 3 times a year when  they are closed long enough for the oven to get to 500 F and they are coming up – Thanksgiving,  Christmas & New Years – On My!

 

Can't wait to eat the plain pizza for dinner - Even reheated i know it will be terrific.

The best goes out to all the great folks at Pomo’s especially Niecco and Terry ……even though pizza at home is now forever ruined and 2nd rate.   Focaccia Romana is now officially renamed Niecco’s Sourdough Pizza Crust and Focaccia.

Don't forget to have a salad and some fine Gorgonzola with that fine pizza!

 

SD Levain Build

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3

Total

%

6 Week Retarded Rye Sour

10

0

0

10

1.98%

75% Extraction 6 Grain

10

20

45

75

14.85%

Water

10

20

45

75

14.85%

Total

30

40

90

160

31.68%

Build 4 was the 25 g of 25% Extraction whole 6 grain and no water

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Levain Totals

 

%

 

 

 

Whole 6 Grain

105

20.79%

 

 

 

Water

80

15.84%

 

 

 

Levain Hydration

76.19%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

 

 

LaFama AP

200

39.60%

 

 

 

Smart and Final High Gluten

200

39.60%

 

 

 

Total Dough Flour

400

79.21%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

9

1.78%

 

 

 

Water

260

51.49%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Hydration

65.00%

 

 

 

 

Total Flour w/ Starter

505

 

 

 

 

Water

340

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration with Starter

67.33%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

904

 

 

 

 

% Whole 6 Grain

20.79%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whole 6 grain flour is equal amounts of: spelt, wheat

 

 

 

einkorn, emmer, Pima Club & Sonoran White -100g total

 

 

There is 6 g of whole rye in the starter but that would make 7 grains

 

and I'm not re typing the post so forget about the whole rye

 

 

After the dough is divided in half add 1 tsp of chopped fresh rosemary

 

10 g of sun dried tomato (Dried weight before reconstituting) and 2g of

 

minced garlic miicro waved on high to 15 seconds with 10 g of EVOO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

25 g of sifted out hard bits from the 6 whole grain were added back

 

to the levain for a stage 4 build - no water for this stage

 

 

 

 

Comments

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Man, that's a fantastic looking cornicione.  What a lovely pie.  Nice to have a friend in the business who'll bake that for you.

I knew his oven reminded me of something.  It'll come to me in a minute.  Oh yeah, here it is - 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Sumarianish or Hittite rather than Italian but it sure looks like it could be the inspiration for that fine, if a bit flashy (in a helmety way), oven!  The pizza was killer and glad you liked it Alan/

Happy baking 

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

I was thinking Dome of the Rock

Dome of the Rock

Buon apetito, dab!

-Tdb

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I was taken back to the time when Venetian glass was the best in the world and a closely held secret.  I'm pretty sure the outside of this Dome of the Dough are tiny gold glass tiles.  I wonder if they came from Venice.  Nico said the oven shipped from Italy pretty much completed........ bet that wasn't inexpensive.

Happy baking Toad.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

After a few hours in the blazing sun, I'll bet it gets a lot closer to 900dF inside of that helmet than inside of the Dome of the Rock.  Bring on the individual pies!

BTW I've never seen it before and may never see these words strung together again "Happy baking Toad".  How do I explain that one to the grandkids?

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

Too bad.  That blows the image I had been enjoying of the Gilbert, AZ tilesetter's expression when Nico told him what he wanted his WFO to be covered with.

                 You want me to lay WHAT on that dome?

Dome of the Dough - that's good, dab!

t

Isand66's picture
Isand66

Wow!!  I couldn't wait to read your post after you told me you would be doing this.  I'm so excited for you and it looks like it didn't disappoint in the least.  What a treat to have your own dough baked in such a fantastic oven.  I can get my Weber grill up to around 750-800 degrees but nothing compared to this.  It looks like you made a new friend and for you what could be better than maybe getting a chance to bake your bread in this work of art later in the year.

Happy 900 degree baking!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

put a WFO in the back yard.  If i still lived in KCMO with 20 acres of trees i think I would.  When i built the was in the back yard i actually built 3 sides of a WFO base.  Wood is extremely expensive here.,

The pizza I reheated last might was a real shocker.  i told Nico we would make the white pizza first meaning the white dough one.  i was busy looking at the oven and the next thing I knew the pizza was going in - he is really fast.  I had to stop him so i could get a picture.  Turns out he made the pizza a white one like any pizza guy would do - just crust and cheese with no sauce.

While the crust was fantastic the pizza was a little bland and dry - It isn't my wife's or my favorite..  My wife said the crust had too much whole grains in it - but she could taste them because there wasn't any sauce.  A nice pesto base would have been really good with it though.  So we had really good cheese bread for dinner last night:-)

It is always great to meet another who is as crazy about baking and bread as we are.  That is what my wife and Daughter said too - Daddy has a new friend!

Nico was telling me that some pizzas need to be baked at 700-750 F rather than 900-950 F - perfect for your Weber attachment..  Thicker crust, more loaded like a NY style fold-up is one of them.  That is the kind of pizza he started out in the business making in a coal fired oven at 750 F.

Glad you liked the post Ina and Lucy sends her best to her furry friends

Happy baking]\Going back and looking at the pictures it looks like he did put sauce on it!  Still not as good as the pepperoni focaccia one - and the sauce disappeared,

 

PalwithnoovenP's picture
PalwithnoovenP

What luxury you just had! Your awesome dough baked by a master pizziaolo in that wonderful oven. Nothing can really match a wood fired oven, it just makes anything baked in it a million times better!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

difference the WFO makes,  Now we need to find out if Nico likes homemade limocello and diet Squirt with his pizzas?

Happy baking Pal

Reynard's picture
Reynard

I can see you were excited through the camera shake ;-)

What a fabulous, fabulous opportunity. Good for you, experiences like that don't come around often.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

in low light at a distance since i don't know how to use it and its is probably get toward 8 years old/  I set it for indoors and the flash went off 3 times every time i took a picture and I have no idea how ou can hold a camera still for that long on a couple of espressos....at my age:-)

This is how I really learned to cook.  Since I was in the food distribution business i could get into any chefs kitchen and see what they do but it took some effort and persuasion to have them show me what to do and get them to let me cook on the line in their kitchen.  It helped if they were short handed but you had to be able to take the heat from the stove and the chef!  20 years later I could cook all kinds of stuff from all over the world at least half decent enough to eat.

All you have to do is ask and make a deal they can't refuse and learn to never say no!  You  are so right.  This was a great experience not to be missed.

Happy baking 

 

 

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Of camera you've got, but my 1Dmk2 is 10 years old and my 10D even older LOL...

Rule of thumb for shooting is that the slowest speed shutter speed to successfully hand hold for is the inverse of the focal length i.e. if you have a 50mm lens, then you can shoot up to 1/50s without shake.

You'll get more consistent results if you take the camera out of the pre-set modes and into manual. For indoor work I set the shutter speed to 1/80, the aperture to f8 and the ISO to 400 - I work mostly with bounce flash, as with the older camera bodies, the high ISO performance is pretty pants. Oh, and I use a 50mm prime lens. My feet are my zoom function LOL

HTH ;-)

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

You get to pick inside, outside, closeup, portrait, backlight, beach, sunset,  etc.  It is a basic camera today that would cost less than $100 -  point and shoot with no manual settings or even focus for that matter and very old. I got it for my daughter, Christmas in 2009.  She gave it back to me a couple of yeas ago saying ti was totally worthless as a camera 

I'm surprised it takes as good a pictures as it does

Some day i will get a real camera if live that long

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Of a Pentax 35mm point & shoot that my dad bought for me about 15 years ago when I said I wanted a proper camera. It was ok for the very basic stuff, but push it to its limits and it really sucked. I could never decide whether to use it or to smash it in frustration. I got better results from the single use ones...

I gave up a couple of months later and bought a Canon EOS 5 and have never looked back.

What about a used camera body & glass? There's some pretty decent stuff floating about on the secondhand market, and it's a fabby way of getting bang for buck. Three of my five lenses and one of my camera bodies were bought used.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

various 35 mm, big box cameras and large format ones with all the associated lenses and printing equipment plus the audio equipment that is now obsolete - I will never ever invest any more significant money in any technology that will be replaced by the next newer one in a couple of years.  I will make due with a 6 year old pint and shoot camera until it breaks and then get another one that does 10 time as much, 10 times better, 10 times faster for 10 times less money:-)

Happy Baking 

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Pretty venerable in digital terms - gearheads probably would call it obsolete ;-) I don't regret investing in good glass though. Bottom line is, it's not what you've got, it's how you use it LOL

A friend of mine gave me his digital P&S when he upgraded, but I've not told him it frustrates the hell out of me ;-) It's just gone into a box with other camera stuff that I no longer use for one reason or another. I'm so used to using the manual setting on my DSLRs that having it all done for me is kind of... well...

I have some lovely film kit. I can still get film reasonably easily (35mm and 120 / 620), but the real killer is finding places that still process it as I don't have my own darkroom...

victoriamc's picture
victoriamc

Those pizza are amazing!!  and in only 1 min in that oven.  Almost makes me want to give up making pizzas in my home oven, then again my family would not be happy if I did that!!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

a fine fizz oven to make all kinds of bread in.  Nothing like taking  $1 pizza into a $10,000 one:-)  Still, If only had the money and the wood  ....Keep the family happy with the 7 minute pizza and hope that ignorance remains bliss.  Glad you liked the post.

Happy Pizza baking ..

CAphyl's picture
CAphyl

dabrownman:  What a fantastic experience!  I am sure your crust compares to anyone's, including pizzerias.  This must have been the best pizza you ever tasted.  If you get the pizza oven in the backyard, we are all coming over for a slice.  What a wonderful experience. Thanks so much for sharing it with us.  Best, Phyllis

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

mean that I totally ran out of other things to do :-)

 Paolo Soleri, a FL Wright apprentice and a famous Italian Architect who lives in Scottsdale, had his students build a city of sorts out near Black Canyon in AZ where they would mound up dirt into a dome shape, cut ribs in it like dome would have put a telephone pole in the middle at the peak of the mound and then pour light weight concrete over it.  Once the concrete set up they would hang block and tackle pulleys up on top of the telephone pole and attach the ropes to the lower edge of the concrete.  Then they would pull the dome of concrete up the telephone pole dig out the dirt put up some walls to hold the dome and then lower it down on the walls, cut down the telephone pole  Where the pole was would be the center skylight to let sunlight into the dome .  Very ingenious, I always wanted to build an oven like that.using fire bricks and refractory mortar for the dome.,  Anyway the city is called Arcosanti and a great place to visit just to see the buildings but they make brass bells and other stuff along with fudge too. so if you get a chance - here is there website

When i was a student Architect Paolo came to K-State for a talk and some arch friends and I went out there for two weeks the next summer to help him build these weird buildings and live in t-pees.  iI was one of those great experiences a young architect could have to meet such a strange and wonderful designer and person - sort of like like baking pizzas in Niecco's oven.  

https://arcosanti.org/

So if i make one,  everyone would be invited for pizza for sure.  I say invite the world and hope only a small part of it shows up.....the part that brings beer!   Glad you liked the post Phyllis and happy baking. 

CAphyl's picture
CAphyl

dabrownman:  We have friends in Black Canyon, so now we have multiple reasons to visit.  My husband, Roy, with his engineering/physics background would love to see these structures. Great suggestion. Roy had a pizza last night baked in a similar oven, but it wasn't anywhere near as good as yours.  He said that it had too much cheese, and I know that a really good pizza does not have an overwhelming amount of cheese, as you noted.

If you do make the pizza oven, don't worry about the beer....my husband is English and is really picky about his beer, so we would only bring a really good selection with us...I don't drink beer, but have learned how to pick it out for him....Old Speckled Hen, Boddington's, Sam Adams, London Pride, Grolsch, Sierra Nevada, Bass Ale are a few that he likes.  Hope those will do!

I have some baking to do today.  Experimental baguettes, five grain and maybe classic sourdough.  We are going to dinner at a friend's and I am bringing bread for the host and other guests. Pressure!  

Keep the photos coming of our pizzas.  My efforts will never match up to yours.  Congrats on the fun pizza experience.  Best,  Phyllis

 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Ditto, Phyllis post : )

You said it all, dab!

Do give Nico a thumbs up from TFL!

Life's good! 

Sylvia

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

you would think that I would have one built by now!  Nothing kike a WFO for baking, roasting or braising anything !  I had to go back a change all the spellings from Nico to Niecco - he gave me his phone number that I just loaded into my phone and saw that i spelled his name wrong about 20 times :-) - typical.....

Like is very good indeed Sylvia and I hope to see some more fabulous baked goods coming out of your oven soon.

Happy baking