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Sourdough starter and open crumb

Sebastos156's picture
Sebastos156

Sourdough starter and open crumb

 I've been looking for a recipe to follow where a good open crumb structure is pictured, and it seems like most of the breads I see that have that happen to be sourdough, which I don't make yet (But would really like to.) I wonder if sourdough starter would be an essential part of making that open crumb or if it has any effect.

drogon's picture
drogon

You need to get the hydration up to about 70% then make sure the bubbles/yeasts are evenly distributed. You can do this with commercial yeast, just use less of it and ferment it longer, doing 4-way stretch & folds periodically.

then there's the final shaping and proving - you're handling a lively dough so don't want to knock too much gas out of it, but at the same time you want to shape it for proofing and into the oven.

There is a lot of reading online and lots of videos - you can do the same with commercial yeasts as sourdough in this regard.

My sourdoughs work out at about 65% hydration - I don't chase big bubbles as the marmalade falls through.

-Gordon

richkaimd's picture
richkaimd
richkaimd's picture
richkaimd

Think of sourdough starter as a way to get yeast into your dough; it's really only that.  That's why it's so important to add active starter; why you refresh it before you use it.  It has pretty much no other purpose.  The wet and dry yeasts that we use are descendants of the sourdough starter technique which probably was invented in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs.  While some people think that it's important to make the starter for a particular bread with the flour that that bread calls for (for example, they use rye flour in their starter when making a rye bread), I, for one, strongly doubt that that is necessary since I use so little starter in making a bread that I doubt that its flour matters much to taste.  I just use what ever starter I have around.  

I agree with those who say you can get sour flavor from virtually any yeast just by letting your bread bulk ferment for many hours in a cool environment.  This allows the fermentation process of the yeast to start producing the sour taste.

Now, as to those big bubbles, I also agree that the ones you're seeking are possible only from the techniques used for making high hydration doughs (above 65%).  The manipulation of those doughs is specifically designed to reduce to a minimum the releasing of the gas that's been produced in the bulk fermentation.  It took me a while to learn how to prevent this degassing as much as possible, especially since I was so accustomed to getting rid of the bubbles to make my low hydration doughs.  While there are lots of videos about this (search for videos about making baguettes and ciabatta, for example), I found it very useful to have help in person from someone skilled in the technique.  Pay strict attention to the steps involving removing the dough from the container after the bulk fermentation and to the forming of the loaves.  Learn these techniques and you're home free!  The only thing you have to do next is to bake your bread at 450-500 degrees (do you have an oven thermometer?) and maybe in a Dutch oven to help with crust formation.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

it is the LAB that make the acid and the sour while the yeast in the SD make CO2 to make the dough rise.  Fermenting commercial yeast won't make sour - just more yeast and Co2.

Commercial yeast isn't the same variety as what is found is SD. The yeast in SD have to be able to live in a n acid environment that the LAB produces.  What flour you use also makes a difference int eh sour and flavor that you end up with along with the temperature and hydration of the levain build.

A naturally cultivated starter that doesn't produce sour is yeast water since there is no LAB component and it makes for a great replacement for commercial yeast in bread when sour is not wanted or needed

Happy Baking 

Arjon's picture
Arjon

Your choice of flour(s) can make quite a difference, even with no other changes to your recipe.