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quick question about long proofs with eggs

andythebaker's picture
andythebaker

quick question about long proofs with eggs

i'm trying to tackle the Iginio Massaria's panettone recipe.  i've made the Elmi version before.

my biga was probably not as robust as it should have been.  so after the first part of the dough proffed, i noticed the rise wasn't great.  i made a poolish with some of the remaining flour/water that needed to be mixed in to create the final dough.  i'm using osmetolerant yeast for this poolish.

so, pushing on ahead, the final dough is mixed and portioned and placed in their molds.  and they're expanding.  but slowly.

i'm considering letting them sit overnight and seeing what happens in the morning.  i don't mind if it flops.

my concern, though, is food safety.  i mean, i was hesitant to use a recipe where a dough with considerable amount of raw egg yolks needs to sit out on the counter for hours on end.  but to push the proofing time further than the what's stated in the recipe...

any advice?

drogon's picture
drogon

I keep chickens, so may appear somewhat biased to the way I do things.

However - here's an interesting little factoid - the way we treat/keep/distribute eggs in the UK is illegal in the US, and vice-versa!

In the UK we do not refrigerate eggs. Some people do - but only after they buy them from the shops. From hen to packaging to transport to shops, eggs here in the UK are not refrigerated. Eggs easily last 4 weeks in their shells without the need for refrigeration - as long as they're kept relatively cool (ie 'room temperature') and dry.

My chickens have been inoculated for a variety of ailments including salmonella, (as are all commercial chickens in the UK) and eggs from my hens have the sawdust and any dirt (it's muddy this time of the year )-: brushed off and they're kept in a rack in the kitchen. (One of these: http://www.egg-skelter.co.uk/ )

 

So an overnight proof for a dough with eggs in it really should not be a problem. I'd be hesitant to let anything prove at room temperature for longer than that, but that's mainly for other reasons.

 

-Gordon

Isand66's picture
Isand66

Can you refrigerate the proofing dough?  That would certainly solve any health issues you may have.

andythebaker's picture
andythebaker

thanks for the replies.  i don't think i could've proofed (proved?  provened?) in the fridge and get any sort of decent rise.  so, yeah, this dough has had 5 yolks sitting out at 75F for 8 hours plus 5 yolks more sitting out for what is now 24 hrs, also at 75F.  so this dough has been at room temp for a day and a half!

i guess i'm wondering if, being mixed into the dough, it's somehow safer.  but in any case, i'm cranking the oven on now and am about to bake it.  hopefully i won't get sick... but if i do, i hope to lose some weight i gained over the holidays!

Isand66's picture
Isand66

I bulk proof my dough all the time.  You just need to either let the bulk dough come back to room temp for 1-2 hours or shape and let it rise until ready to bake.  Give it a try.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

Salmonella will die at temperatures as low as 140 F if exposed for something like 10 minutes since your bread will come out of the oven having a much higher internal temperature and having been above 140 for a long time you can be pretty certain that the little beasties are dead.  The higher the temperature the shorter the kill time so if your bread has an internal 190 F you are pretty much assured that the bread is safe.  From what I have seen the concern with eggs and salmonella is when the eggs are consumed raw, such as homemade salad dressings, mayo and raw cookie dough and even sunny side up eggs.  Personally I would not be concerned but it is entirely your call.

Gerhard

AbeNW11's picture
AbeNW11 (not verified)

It'll be present from the beginning. Eggs won't develop salmonella by being left out. And as gerhard says it'll be killed off in the oven anyways. 

Open uncooked eggs left out at a high temperature will at risk of going bad not contracting salmonella. 

But it was formed into a dough, which might be different to eggs standing alone, and fermentation is taking place. 

Don't sweat it. You'll be fine. 

pdxbaker's picture
pdxbaker

Important info about salmonella:

If salmonella is present, it'll be on the shells of eggs and transferred into the egg when broken.

Salmonella grows rapidly at room temperature but is greatly inhibited in refrigeration. 

Salmonella bacteria excrete an exotoxin that causes the symptoms of salmonella poisoning. This exotoxin is not destroyed by heat.

Heating salmonella contaminated food that has been left out to allow for bacterial growth may kill the bacteria but will still make you sick.