The Fresh Loaf

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Health of my starter

rjstucker's picture
rjstucker

Health of my starter

My starter is about 3 weeks old now. At the start of the 6th day I started refrigerating after allowing it to ferment approximately 8 hours, then feeding it every 3 days. My house stays pretty cool in the winter, so where I keep it when out is a pretty steady 65ºF. I'm following Peter Reinhart's formula, and in both of his books I have say that is the ideal temp.

I'm doubling the starter at a 133% hydration rate per his formula for San Francisco style starter. It bubbles really well, but sometimes doesn't get what I would consider foamy, and it doesn't rise. I tried making a firm starter with it last night, but it didn't rise at all after 8 hours.

Could the hydration rate be the reason it doesn't rise, or is it possible the yeast and bacteria cultures haven't been fed enough times to reach the right levels? I've started feeding it twice a day without refrigeration, as the cooler temps seem to make it possible to do so every 12 hours instead of every 8 as some recommend. Does it sound like I'm on the right track?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

slow it down. Logical, as there is more flour food to chew on so it takes longer until the yeast numbers are up.  Be careful not to feed too soon and taste the starter to make sure there is enough build up of acid before feeding more flour.  Watch the starter carefully and let the starter tell you when it needs food.  Let it peak in visual activity before feeding it. Otherwise you will be diluting the starter with each feeding until it no longer supports a yeast population big enough to raise bread.  They just cant keep up with the increase in flour food.

Why are you switching to a firmer starter?  

If your temps are cool, a wetter starter often works out better, you just have to use more of it for bread baking than a firm starter.  Adjust the water amounts in the recipe so most of the liquid is coming from the starter.  If you have an older starter sitting around I would suggest going back to it.  Don't feed the firmer starter until you are happy with it's behaviour.

Cooling the starter slows the way the starter feeds, a lot.  Feeding every three days is probably too much.  It depends on how mature the starter is when refrigerated.  If partially mature, it can go weeks in the fridge.  If fully mature, already peaked, the three days is about right.  Don't get hooked into "Double" being a rule, let the starter fully peak, that can me it's volume may double, triple or quadruple if it is firm enough to rise.  A more liquid starter will show bubbles rising and popping on the surface so it ain't rising much but you should smell more aromas coming off the starter when it peaks and smelling and tasting the yeasty activity.  Letting a starter only double before feeding may be feeding it too soon if the goal is to keep the yeast healthy.  Watch the yeast not the clock.  If it helps you put a deflated plastic bag over the starter and watch it fill with gasses from the starter.  Deflate the bag every 4 hrs and watch it fill again.  When the time it takes to fill slows down, it has reached peak.  Then feed.   :)

rjstucker's picture
rjstucker

in Peter Reinhart's book "Crust & Crumb" in which he recommends making a firm starter from the wet sponge and then refrigerating overnight for two reasons; he says it helps to strengthen the dough so that it will rise up more than it will when using the wet starter in the dough, and second, he says it helps develop more flavors. So the firm starter is made one day then used the next.

I'm doubling it when feeding right now so that I have a baseline from which to modify it later if I choose to. And when letting it sit, I have been watching it and only refrigerating after the yeast activity peaks, which seem to be between 10 and 12 hours, which is why I'm thinking that just leaving it out until it fully matures would be best. As I mentioned, what concerns me is that it doesn't rise after feeding, even though it does develop a lot of bubbles and gets foamy on top, so I'm wondering if the hydration rate could be at least part of the reason the sponge doesn't rise.

Oh, and this is my first ever starter. lol

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

That makes a difference as a rye starter seldom rises after refrigeration.  Not until it is fed, then it takes a few hours of what looks like low activity (yeast numbers are still multiplying) until they feel stressed enough to produce gas.  Roll the starter in flour when done mixing it so you can see cracks forming as it expands.  

When changing to a firm starter, it does take a few feeds for the yeast to catch up and adjust.  

Now is a good time to make a ball of wet starter (a tsp or two) and flour adding to make a crumbly very firm ball about the size of a ping pong ball, roll it in flour and toss a heaping spoon of flour into a small jar.  Put the ball in there, label it (date, what it is, how old it is, and instructions to save when cleaning the fridge.)  This can be a back up for later, it should keep for several months if not longer in the door or somewhere not icy.  Don't tighten the lid until several days after chilling.  Then just forget it until you have an emergency.  It will give you a jump start if you need to start up another starter in the near future.

rjstucker's picture
rjstucker

Only on the first day, then switched to KA bread flower, and only going on to the next step of building the starter (or seed culture as the author calls it) at the start of each new day, and keeping it at room temp the first 5 days before beginning to refrigerate after feeding and allowing sufficient time to ferment. It actually rose well, though not doubling, the 3rd and 4th days. The hydration level was lower up to the 5th day, at which time the formula called for increasing each feeding to the 133% hydration I mentioned above. At first I wasn't concerned about it not rising after that as the author only mentioned it being foamy as the point at which it should be put back in the frig.

I know from watching a video about making an Italian style biga that that takes up to two weeks (possibly more) for it to be ready to make bread, and the firm starter Peter makes is very similar, though a little more hydrated. He says it should double in size though after just 6 to 8 hours from the time you mix the wet sponge with the flour.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

you might find in this post and the previous one found in the posted links.  

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6866/audrey-2-saga-feed-3

and this especially...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/34797#comment-34797

note, it doesn't have to double or rise much to be mature.

doughooker's picture
doughooker

If it "bubbles really well" then you have a bakeable starter. Try baking a loaf with it and see how it comes out. You can probably pick up a yeasty aroma from your starter. The yeast are producing carbon dioxide, the source of your bubbles.

We recently had a poster with a perfectly bakeable starter, but the collective starter doctors on TFL advised her to the point that her starter turned into an unusable, moldy mess. She then had to salvage this mess and backtrack to about the stage yours is at. She baked a loaf with it and it turned out fine, but it wasted a lot of her time and she went through a lot of needless bother.