The Fresh Loaf

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Could use info on "Black Bread" / Schwarzbrot

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SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Could use info on "Black Bread" / Schwarzbrot

I made the BBA Cinnamon, Raisin, and Walnut bread last night to innaugurate my new spartan kitchen..not too bad.  I brought some to work and a few folks at the "office" mentioned a love of black bread or Schwarzbrot.  I am not well versed in German breads.  They weren't sure of the type of flour.  It was described as rather dark loaf both crust and crumb, deep flavor, no large holes, and dense. 

Guessing this would be a sourdough type with a high percentage of rye and whole wheat?  If you have a recipe and pics of a classic version of this bread, I'd love to try it!

Now I need to figure out where I am going to get my starter here in FL.  Maybe the bakery next door..

 SD Baker

hedera helix's picture
hedera helix

I have a recipe for pumpernickel which is the darkest of the Kastenbrots that are very typical German breads. It is not the same as Schwartzbrot, but similar in the crucial respect of the ingredient that gives it the distinctive black look. Molasses.

Schwartzbrot is whole rye, coarsely ground with molasses, which really adds a rich malty flavour. Quite a refined taste, not for everyone.

The pPumpernickel recipe I have is 450g rye flour, 225g wholemeal flour, 115g bulgur wheat, 10ml salt, 30ml molasses, 850ml water and 15ml vegetableoil.

Mix all the  dr ingreients together in a bowl. mix the molasses with the water and add to the flour adding the oil. Place in two greased 18x9cm loaf tines, cover and leave in a warm place for 24 hrs. Preheat oven to110C/225F. Cover tins with foil, fill a roasting tin with boiling water and place a rack on top. Place the tins on the rack and transfer carefully to the oven. Bake for 4 hrs! Increase oven temp to 160C/325F, top up the water, uncover loaves and bakefor 30-45 minutes more, until the loaves feel firm and the tos are crusty. Leave to cool for 5 mins then turn out on a wire rack to cool completely before sering cold, sliced very thin with cold meats or cream cheese.

Habve't made it myself yet, so can't speak for how it is, but i like it when I'm in Germany.

 

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

Thank you.  I have looked at Hammelman's recipes and one uses molasses.  Some use old bread (vice old dough) to re-use old bread and add depth of flavor.  I noticed the recipe you provided has no levain or yeast.  Now I am more curious about this bread.

 SD Baker

 

Shajen's picture
Shajen

I tried this recipe this weekend, halved, except for the substitution of 20 g sourdough starter for 20 g of the water (the hydration and lack of yeast were scaring me, but then I got a grip). It did rise about double over the 24 hours. The last hour or so of baking involved an intensely sour smell, and when it came out it was only medium brown and hadn't risen at all. It turned out not to be done in the middle, all wet and gummy, and it tasted like it might have been good had it been cooked, but it was stone-cold at that point so I just threw it out. Sigh.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or almost boiling, extremely hot, might be the trick.

Can you check the recipe again?

Mini O

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

SDbaker..you're not going to grow your own?

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

 Paddyscake..oh the shame I feel. Calling me out like that  : )    Actually it's a fair question and I am pleased to report that I just got back from my local health store and found some organic rye and unbleached white flour.   Refreshed a few of the methods..even got some organic pineapple juice.  Sat by the pool with a gin and tonic with the setting Florida sun with the BBA and read a few pages.

 I am going to start tonight and by the time it should have worked or not worked, my starter from home should have arrived as a back up.

SD Baker

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

and the BBA for company..well, not such bad company! Always intrigued to hear how new starters are doing..How is your "home" starter getting there? dried?

SDbaker's picture
SDbaker

New thread posted re: humble attemps attempts at starter development

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

really it is. If you use a high amount of Rye there is almost no long waiting for bulk fermentation or proof. The tricks are soaking. Important is that you "sour" your rye flour. Hamelman's page 217 can be used as just rye.

I've used directly bakers percentage, moving the decimal place over one place for two loaves, dividing it by 2 for one loaf. (68.4% reads 684g etc) For one loaf, I've started out with 20g starter 120g flour,120g water and sit overnight. in morning added 200g water and 200g rye and let it sit a few hours then added the rest of the ingredients including yeast. Now things go fast. Let it sit 30 minutes and knead 5 minutes if you don't have a mixer (mixing) and follow the rest of the instructions.

The dough always looks like some kind of cookie dough paste to me and sometimes much easier to handle with wet hands. Many times I splash in a little water when it looks too stiff by kneading. Don't ever wait for it to double, it will do that in the oven. You can smooth the surface with wet hands easy enough when shaping your loaf.
--Mini Oven

hedera helix's picture
hedera helix

Interesting comments, Mini Oven, I just made some German Sourdough yesterday, heavy on Rye, and had real problems with it while I waited for it to double - it just wouldn't do it, but you say don't wait. I did, it didn't, but eventually I shoved it in the oven, and there was not much movement there either, it came out quite a heavy loaf, but with an amazing flavour (I started it about 3 days before baking).

The consistency of Rye is so difficult to work with, I will try what you suggest - wetting my hands next time, as it gets so sticky. I don't know if I need to add more flour to dry it, or if it is supposed to be that way.

Any comments on how important it is to knead it when it is a rye loaf - my recipe still had quite a bit of wheat flour. Is it more just a case of trying to get it thoroughly mixed, or does the kneading really make a difference?

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Mini,

I'm looking at the recipe above and have been wanting to try a pumpernickel. Hedra's recipe is missing the sd or yeast I see in other rye mixes. In fact sometimes I am surprised at the amount of yeast called for. Is this right or am I missing something? The long slow cooking/baking in water bath sounds like it would produce the right texture.

Eric

hedera helix's picture
hedera helix

I'd never really thought about the yeast in this bread before. In fact, when it was pointed out on this thread that there was none in there, I went back and checked in case i'd missed it out, but there is none (I'm relieved to say).

Now that I am thinking about it, I can see that it was almost surely absent from all of the Kastenbrots I have had before. Kastenbrot means (I think) Box Bread, as they are very square and regular shaped, and this is (with hindsight) due to lack of any rising due in turn to lack of yeast. There are no airholes in the crumb of these breads, so are quite dense and heavy, hence only needing to cut very thin slices.

I went to Germany a lot as a kid, to see family there, and there are special slicing machines in many/most kitchens, almost like the type used for slicing ham in a deli, that they use for this sort of bread to get an even thin-ness from the cut.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

what she describes is a very dense bread, many times a slice is no bigger than 4 x 4 inches and 1/4 thin. (And I confess, I have a slicing machine built into a cupboard, very handy. Also good for cutting cold meats, and dried meats paper thin.) And this bread must cool 24 hours before cutting. I have never bought a whole loaf and it is one of the few breads sold bundled into 4 or 6 slices because it is so heavy.

But I have made this with sourdough as well and more for the flavor it gives. I have never steamed a loaf on purpose but it has happened within a closed stainless loaf pan with lid and high moisture dough.

The bread I was describing was from Jeffrey Hamelman's BREAD book. I have made it sourdough only, rye flour only, but it rises better with a little yeast, the proofing time is so fast with rye that waiting too long is not good. If a glutinous flour is mixed into the dough, naturally the proofing times will be longer. And as the Rye to Wheat flour ratio in the dough swings towards wheat, the rye becomes less significant and dough acts more like wheat bread and the rye becomes more like a flavoring.

I have also made 100% rye without kneading just short mix and it needed more. The trapped gasses cracked through the dough too quickly. This happened when I made the walnut bread and mixed in the nuts too soon. The second time I mixed longer by kneading and just before shaping the loaf, rolled the nuts into it. That worked out well and the loaf held together. (I haven't used molasses in years. I do use very dark brown sugar.) There has to be some good mixing, easier to mix longer before all the flour is worked in. I don't use a mixing machine for dough, I love the squish of it all and getting my hands dirty. :) --Mini Oven

pjkobulnicky's picture
pjkobulnicky

You don't need to be concerned about kneading high percentage rye doughs.  There is nearly no gluten to develop. Rather, they form a kind of matrix as they "rise".  That's what happens when you bake at low temps for a long, long time. They puff up a bit and then dry out in a way that is slightly different than wheat breads.

 

And ... high percentage ryes ARE an acquired  taste ... but wonderful with strong cheeses, pates, smoked fish and other hearty bits. They are good at smoothing out the flavors in the high fats in those cheeses and meats too. If you think the essence of good food is Mediteranean, you may not like heavy ryes :-)

 

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

foolishpoolish's picture
foolishpoolish

As I understand it, traditional german pumpernickel does not rise nor does it contain molasses (although the versions popular in the states and elsewhere usually contain molasses and other dark colouring agents eg cocoa).

The dark colour comes from a low temp, and v.long  bake. eg 110C for 24 hours -  a maillard effect (presumably from reaction between the amino acids from breakdown of proteins in the rye and sugars from hydrolysis of the starch in the rye)

Sourdough starter is an ingredient in the dough but not used for a leavening effect.