The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

10 Grain 50 Percent Whole Grain Sourdough - Back To The Old Sourdough Ways

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dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

10 Grain 50 Percent Whole Grain Sourdough - Back To The Old Sourdough Ways

Way back, when I first started making SD bread, I followed the same old routine; Gluten development with 10 minutes of kneading, then 2 hours of fermenting, then shaping and about 4 hours of final proof.  It made good bread but not the best.

 

Then I went to slap and folds for gluten development, then stretch and folds then 2 hour of ferment followed by a bulk retard of 8 hours, warm up, shape,  final proof and bake.  This worked a little better.

 

Then I went to slap and folds and stretch and folds followed by no ferment at all, shaping then 12 hours in the fridge, warm up and bake.  Better bread again.  But it was easy to over-proof in the fridge so I cut the retard to 10 hours.

 

The other way to add time to the process that would allow for a bulk counter ferment and a longer retard is to cut the levain amount from the 15-20% of the total flour and water weight to something less than 10% in the hopes that the longer time would lead to better flavor without over proofing.

 

The small levain was built over (2) 3 hour stages with progressively greater amounts of flour and water and then refrigerating the levain for 24 hours after it had risen 25% in volume after the 3rd feeding.  It finished doubling on the counter the next day after 2 hours of warm up.

 

So Lucy cut the levain amount to less than 10%, added a 2 hour bulk ferment to the 3 sets of slap and folds of 6, 1.and 1 minute upping the interval to 20 minutes and 3 sets of stretch and folds, from the compass points only,  also on 20 minute intervals.  During the 2 hour bulk ferment, 1 set of stretch and folds were done at the 1 hour mark. 

 

The dough was then bulk retarded in the fridge for 12 hours.  The next morning, after the dough had warmed up for 2 hours on the counter, the dough was shaped and placed into a bran floured basket – something new and allowed to proof on the counter for 2 hours before going into a 525 F preheated oven with  Mega Steam.

 

It steamed for 15 minutes and, once the steam came out, it baked another 10 minutes before hitting 205 F on the inside.  We left in on the stone with the oven off and door ajar until it hit 207 F on the inside when it was removed to the cooling rack.

 

What a great lunch - this was a pate maison sandwich with melted pepper jack cheese and this bread - killer!

It spread out some, sprang and bloomed a little, less than out normal which means over proofing or too wet or both even though the hydration was 2% lower than normal – so I’m guessing over proofing at about 95% instead of 85%. It did brown, but hard to tell with the bran coating if it blistered.  The crust went very soft as it cooled.  Still, the crumb should be fairly open for a 50% whole grain bread but we will not know that until after lunch.

Last Friday's Ancient Grain Plotziade bake for breakfast - this bread is seriously good.

 The crumb came out less open than we wanted sue to it being over proofed.  Thank goodness we were dong this experiment to keep it from over proofing in the fridge and we managed to over proof it on the counter :-)  The crumb was soft and moist -  the crust softened even more.   The taste was complex and deep due to the grains used but it was not as sour as our normal loaf - don't like that but maybe it will be better tomorrow.  It makes a great sandwich bread and the lunch was fantastic. 

More new stuff  this week…..  Lucy was selected by the WonderMill folks to receive a brand new mill, a wonderful one by the way, so that she can complete the Grain Mill Wagon Challenge.   Way to go Lucy!

 

Another breakfast with last Friday's Pumpernickel Ancient bake

Formula

Chicken and pork with spicy quinoa.

 

 

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3

Total

%

SD starter

3

0

0

3

0.70%

15% Extraction 10 Grains

3

12

21

36

8.42%

Water

3

12

21

36

8.42%

Total

9

24

42

75

17.54%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

%

 

 

 

Flour

37.5

8.77%

 

 

 

Water

37.5

11.24%

 

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

 

 

 

Levain % of Total

9.75%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

 

 

Ramona Pima Club

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Haden Mills Farro

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Spelt

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Rye

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Barley

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Oat

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Kamut

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Einkorn

39

9.12%

 

 

 

HadenMillsDesert Durum

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Ramona White Sonoran

39

9.12%

 

 

 

Dough Flour

390

91.23%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

8

1.87%

 

 

 

Water

296

69.24%

 

 

 

Dough Hydration

75.90%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

427.5

 

 

 

 

Water, Soaker & Scald Water,

333.5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whole Grain Equivalent %

50.00%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

769

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Levain

78.01%

 

 

 

 

 

 Our favorite barely grilled Tuna

Comments

golgi70's picture
golgi70

I recently read a write up shared at the BBGA yahoo groups files on SFSD from the the 70's and apparently one of the tricks or shall I say techniques used was a short bulk followed by a long proof in form.  Apparently more acetic acid is created (I think thats what it said) in final proof than in bulk.  Maybe that is why you employ your system as you do.  It hits the flavor profile you desire.  Maybe you need no change.  But then again these heavy whole grain breads are the trickiest to stay on top of.  Easy to overproof.  Gotta carefully develop gluten and then catch em a bit "young" to get some spring in the oven.  

None the less I'm sure its tasty and the meat looks friggen delish.  It's hard to find roast beef around here thats actually pink.  

Old deli joke before I go.  

Me at the deli ordering:  " Is the roast beef rare"  Deli Worker:  "Nope we have it every day."  

Cheers

Josh

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I like my roast beef a little on the medium rare side than rare.  This one got away from me on the counter, I checked it at 45 minutes and it was moving along pretty fast so i starter the oven up.  I was making some jam, a pot of beans and trying to keep up with the market .  Next thing I knew the oven was hot but there was no steam in it so that took another 20 minutes ti get it in there and steaming.  I opened up the bag ans poof - over proofed . The kitchen was 88 F too.

Some day we will have nanotech bread where little robots will  be in the dough that will realize when the bread will be ready crank up any acid level you want, automatically turn on the oven and alert you when to put the steam in for perfect loaf of bread.  Lucy is working on it.

If you want acid you need a cold retard which slows down yeast and LABs but the LAB are reproducing at 3 times the rate of yeast at 36 F.   This is why I keep my starter in the fridge for 6 weeks, to make sure that we are inoculating the dough with more LAB than yeast to begin with.  It takes a long time for this to happen in the cold since things happen so slow once you get to 36 F.

If you are bulk for shaped fermenting in the fridge the acid should be the same.  The reason I want to bulk ferment in the fridge  is so that I can shape and proof at a high temperature where LAB really outproduce yeast at 13 times their rate at 92 F.  This should produce a much more sour bread than proofing in then in the fridge shaped and baking it pretty much straight out of the fridge.  The problem is that it isn't practical and you never get to where you want to go.

I have also noticed that the crumb is less open, the spring less and crust less boldly baked if you bulk ferment cold and then shape and proof at room temperature rather than baking shaped cold right out of the fridge. So you are right I will go back to my old way  and increase the levain amount to 15%.   Once the dough gets cold in the fridge, it really slows down and the extra  levain should make the dough more sour in the 10 hours it is in the fridge to fully proof. 

You are right, the method that works the best for me is 15% aged levain, with shaped, cold retard and baking straight out of the fridge in a very hot oven with Mega Steam.  Also as you say, with whole you have to catch it at 85% proof though - the real hard part - no matter what else you do.   This bread was cetainly tasty enough.

Happy baking Josh.    

golgi70's picture
golgi70

It's tuna.  Well the quick glance made me think of roast beef.  i agree med/rare is best but the only locally made roast beef (which is actually quite good when cooked right which is say 20% of the time) is generally cooked beyond towards that of medium well.  No Bueno.  

I'll reread that article I mentioned but yes I'm certain they have very controlled temps which are hard to come by even in the professional baking world.  All the machines would take the fun out of it.  Believe it or not the failures are what keep us striving.  

Cheers

josh

golgi70's picture
golgi70

Maybe just maybe you could take advantage of that heat you have and decrease the levain again.  Only do a short 1 hour bulk and then shape and do a long final proof outside once your hitting days where its rougly 92 F.  Would be interesting at the least.  Never even comes close to that heat up here and if it did it would be record setting and nobody would be ready for it.  If I ever go back to NY in the summer I'll be sure to try this out.  Just for the fun of it.  

Josh

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

since we have had 92 F in the daytime for several weeks now:-)

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

all my failures didn't keep us thriving .....we would be dead!  I'm pretty sure that  the bread machines of the future  will come with a bag of stuff that you will dump in and in 10 minutes will have the best loaf of 'Artisan SD Bread' you have ever eaten.  It is only a matter of time.

One of the biggest myths and lies ever foisted on us by politicians is that all the jobs lost over time is due to outsourcing or off shoring.  The truth is that man is lazy and wants to make his life easier, mentally and physically, not harder.  So we create new technologies that do just that.  97% of all jobs lost were lost to everyone, everywhere and were not outsourced or off shored.

They are just gone forever due to new technology and those in control of it - like the dead Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Bill Gates and all the other ones in tech who create machines and software to run them and replace the hard work that people used to do.   Seems many folks would rather lie to us, quite pathologically I might add,  than tell us the truth.  The problem can't be fixed because.... we are the problem....we are lazy, intelligent, curious and perfectly capable of reducing our workload with our new creations - to the ultimate detriment of ourselves if we like having a job - the backbone of culture and society.  Maybe we don't care about them either?

So this bread machine is not that far off - it is only a matter of time.

Still, I'm going to make my own no matter how over proofed it is :-)   

isand66's picture
isand66

Another beauty DA and your food spread looks amazing as always.  I've had a few overproofed loaves myself lately but yours' still looks pretty good to me.

I thought you already had the Nutrimill?  Did you really win another one and what is the Grain Mill Wagon Challenge?

Happy Baking from the pack..

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I applied to the WonderMIll Grain Mill Wagon Challenge back in mid November.  The challenge is to blog about their fine mill 3 times on their web site and they send you a free mill.  I didn't hear from them for 6 weeks so I bought the Nutrimill when it was dirt cheap on Amazon.  I found out later that the folks at WonderMIll take a few months to pick their challengers.  They actually sent me an email in early March that went straight into my spam box so I didn't see it.  I went looking for another email and found that one where they had picked me.  I sent them back an email and they were kind enough to extend my time and sent me the mill.  This is the first bread i made with the mill.  It is a great mill and perfect for my needs.  Thanks to RobynNZ who pointed me  to the WonderMill Challenge - She felt sorry for me having to grind grain in the old Krup's coffee grinder.

Glad you liked the bread Ian.  It was fun to bake your and Peter Reinart's way again.  It made some fine sandwich bread for sure. 

Happy Baking Ian 

gmabaking's picture
gmabaking

easier to understand for my old/er assistant. She is however, drooling over the keyboard as I write. What beautiful pictures of the food and of the bread. I am green with envy at the fresh fruit. We are stil llimited to rhubarb so far but have lots of strawberry blossoms. Today I am going to work up some rhubarb juice and a bread that is much more of a coffee cake. The juice makes great ice cubes for homemade lemonade. Couldn't be easier, 2 pounds of rhubarb to 8 cups of water, simmered 15 minutes and strained, then decanted when cool. Tart goodness.

Enjoy the summer bounty, thanks for sharing so I can enjoy it too!

Barbra

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Temperatures aren't too hot, only in the 90's and the produce is abundant and very inexpensive.  Cantaloupes, Honeydew and watermelon are 88 cents each.  The berries were all 97 cents each for 6 oz, (you get them cheaper where you are and where they come from) The minneola is nearly the last one from the back yard and the greens finally pooped out this week in the heat but all the lettuce is 88 cents now at Sprouts.  The first nectarines came in this week too. This is the best time for eating produce and having an easy, decent diet.

As things die out here, yours will be taking off for a summer delight instead of the summer blight we have here.

The rhubarb in the bread/cake and ice cubes for lemonade sound good.  I wonder if you can make YW from rhubarb?  Barb's Rhubarb YW sounds pretty good too!

Glad you like the bread and the food.  It'a all fun to make and oh so healthy.  Can't wait to see the GMA's next creations.

Happy Baking Barbra!