The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

High grain sourdough hybrid breads how to make them rise?

Drink's picture

High grain sourdough hybrid breads how to make them rise?

Hi i am making a bread based on the variety called Vogels which is a New Zealand / Australian high grain high ratio dough. The recipe is below... I made it first using only commercial yeast and it worked great i used 1/2 tsp of yeast and it would rise well in the bulk ferment for 8 hours then i would knock it down let it rest for 15 mins. Divide into small loaf tins and let it prove for 90 minutes and it would rise to the top of the tin and be ready to bake.

I had some problems with it's last ability and after 3 days it would start to get mould. I modified the recipe to include sourdough starter which improved the last-ability but i am finding that after the knock down when i place the dough in the tins for the prove that it doesn't rise any more or very little. I have been thinking that maybe the dough is over proofing as the recipe has sourdough starter and yeast. My kitchen is between 25-30 c and the dough usually sits around 30c. What do you guys think i should do so that it rises in the tin like it should ??


9 Grain bread 5
Ingredient Qty
Kibbled Wheatgms75
Kibbled Ryegms50
Rolled Oatsgms27
Sunflower seedsgms68
Pumpkin seedsgms30
flax seedsgms30
chia seedsgms30
sesame seedsgms24
skim milk powdergms17
Plain Flourgms500
Wholemeal Flourgms67
Sourdough Startergms200
Wine Vinegarmls5
total liquid Weightgms1860
dabrownman's picture

raise a high % whole grain loaf like CY at all.  I would try dropping the commercial yeast entirely, up the SD levain to 300 g and drop the vinegar too since the acids the LAB put off will do that job nicely all by itself so the vinegar isn't needed..

After the gluten is developed you might let it sit on the counter for 30 minuets to an hour to ferment before shaping and placing in the tins.  Then bag them and let them and let them proof in the fridge.  Once they rise to the top of the tin - probably 12 hours or so, then you can bake them cold out of the fridge or let them warm up for a couple of hours if you want - just take them out of the fridge a the 10 hour or 75% rise - watch the dough not the clock

This should give you a very tasty and well risen 3 grain bread.

If you don't ant to fridge them then up the ferment from 1 to 2 hours before shaping and tinning and just watch for the 85% rise on the counter to the top of the rim before baking -might take 4-7 hours depending on your kitchen temperature.  Either way should work for you fine.

Happy baking  

Drink's picture

I left the recipe as is and after a 4 hour ferment i divided and placed in the tins. Let them proof for one hour and they rose to the top of the tin. Baked them and PERFECT!!!!

dabrownman's picture

still in the mix.  If you have the time I think the bread sold still taste and keep better using SD only.  If you did it on the counter it might take a few hours more but it would be worth it,  You might do a little experiment to see if the SD outcome is worth the extra time or not.  Glad it work out since the recipe is a healthy one for sure and has to be tasty.. 

Drink's picture

I upped the starter by 50% left out the commercial yeast and vinegar.

Mixed up the dough and let it ferment 4 hrs. Divided and placed in tins.

Let rise for 2 hours and they had risen to the top of the tins.

Baked and they turned out perfectly. Thanks dabrowman you're a genius!


dabrownman's picture

but I am better looking than my apprentice even though she is smarter than me.  So how is the taste of the SD only version? This recipe should be a real killer taste wise.   Do you like it better than the yeast boosted one?

Glad your SD only version worked out well.  Now if you fridge them for 10-12 hours...the taste will be even better:-) I see more experiments in your future!

Happy Baking