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The new book INSIDE THE JEWISH BAKERY

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Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

The new book INSIDE THE JEWISH BAKERY

Back to the new book Inside the Jewish Bakery, regretfully.   I just check the errata pages again on www.nybakers.comand it's now up to 8 pages long.   Granted, typed more neatly, which accounts for some of the additional pages.   And now, if you click on 'books' on this site,  there's the author's notations on the UNPUBLSIHED CHAPTERS that should have gone into this book, but didn't make it (because of the publisher the author says).   Ya know, the more I read about this book the more I realize it's a total failure.   I want my money back.  Not a corrected book because I don't trust that they've made or found all the mistakes.   I'm going to print some of these threads out and print out the errata pages and am taking the book back to the store where I bought it and ask for my money back.   This isn't fair to all of this who bought the book in good faith.   I'm sorry, but that is just the way I feel about it now.   I want my money back, period.    Sorry Stan and Norm, really.   I know how popular you both are on TFL and how many folks on this site follow you and your book and I really don't mean to embarrass either of you, truely I don't.      Hope any future books that you may come out with come into our hands error free and usable, but Inside the Jewish Bakery?  But this book isn't fair to those of us who bought it.  Too many recipes have too many errors and now omitted chapters and a corrected index on top of everything else?   I won't use this book again.    This dog just doesn't hunt....at least not in my kitchen.      Joey the Doeyo

ananda's picture
ananda

I am just wondering if it would not have been more appropriate to contact the authors directly about this by private message, rather than putting your comments into an open forum?   I don't really see what this post is hoping to achieve, other than to embarass the authors.   Whatever your thoughts, they really deserve better than this, sorry.

Andy

carefreebaker's picture
carefreebaker

I'm sorry I didn't know where to reply directly to the original post. I found the review to be respectful and helpful.

I thank the original poster for sharing their review.

 

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Thank you.   I'm the original poster.    Joey the Doeyo

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman had 6 pages of errors two years ago.  Don't buy first edition books if you're not willing to have a few failures.  Some authors won't even provide errata, I am grateful that Stan/Norm are.

Mistakes are common, and everyone learns from them.

fermento's picture
fermento

For a book which has received such glowing reviews, this damnation of it being a "total failure" seems particularly unfair and inaccurate. Even the description of the errata being 8 pages is a tad biased... what I see is 3 pages of errata (some substantial, most minor) plus 5 corrected recipes printed in full, one per page. 

I have been involved in the publication of books and other material for many years, and wish the standards of perfection demanded by the OP were attainable, but the realities of deadlines and economics make it unlikely. I think it a great credit to the authors that they have been so diligent in finding, admitting and publishing this errata - if only other authors lived up to this standard. And the important thing is the value of the book, which in this case is beyond question.

Edit: And this is the second time OP has posted re these errors? Why? 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

You wouldn't even have known about the chapters that didn't make it into the finished book if you hadn't seen the website. If you view the bonus material on a DVD - do you take it back because those scenes were cut out of the film?

I didn't have any good reason to buy the book other than curiosity, since I was one of the testers who had some real flops among the tested recipes. But I was very favorably impressed when I read the book - the historic background and stories alone were worth it. Cookbooks are work books and reference material for me, I always scribble notes and comments in them, and, as long as I am informed about errata, I can live with them.

The recipes I made from the book so far were very good, so I'm willing to cut the NYBakers some slack.

Karin

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

I bought this book and am loving it - errors and all!

I agree with the above post that many authors will not provide errata.  Stan and Norm are doing a great job posting all and why criticize them for mentioning the omitted chapters?  That is a very common occurrence and not just with cook books.  

This book is clearly a labor of love and the stories in it are pure history.  My hat is off to the two men who have taken it upon themselves to try to salvage what is left of the types of breads and pastries they have recorded on it's pages.  Even if it had 100 pages of errata - I am still a satisfied owner of this book and would not hesitate to buy a copy to give to a friend!

One of my favorite sayings is:  "If you don't make mistakes, you don't make anything."  

Janet

 

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

My, my, my..........such a post as this is really not beneficial for anyone.  The merits and demerits of cookbooks in general have been well covered here.  This covers books in general as well as this specific book and the fans, the critics and the authors  have all been gracious in their comments and opinions.  I hope the original poster finds whatever satisfaction he seeks but this is hardly the right place for your airing your mind as you have.

Happy Baking,

Jeff

yy's picture
yy

I'd like to throw my voice into the mix in support of Stan and Norm and their impressive accomplishment. It's easy to take for granted the stack of pages sitting on the shelf and to forget what a labor of love it is. Seeing the process of ITJB coming out and people becoming acquainted with it has given me a newfound appreciation for all of the baking books I've used over the years. I'm grateful that Stan and Norm have made this journey so transparent to us TFLers. 

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Joe,

I also don't believe you have handled this matter properly.  I don't know Stan and Norm personally but as a test baker on this project I do know that they are both very accomplished bakers and this book was more than just a bread book - it is a book about a way of life that if they had not chosen to try and preserve would have been lost or at a minimum not known to a person like myself - a rural Southern guy. 

If you want your money back I would be happy to make that happen for you - I would like to buy your copy of inside the Jewish Bakery.  Please send me a message indicating how we can make this transaction occur. 

Respectfully,

Ben

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the path to success and true greatness can only be achieved by failing and then learning from those mistakes by saying 'I wish I had done that instead' and then doing it!!  I am sure that the second edition will be a really great book, as is the first edition that will create it.  I'm such a lousy baker, I'm sure  I wouldn't even be able to notice the mistakes in the first place.  Iignorance and graciousness make for bliss.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

I have the book and I have made many of the breads in it.  It is a wonderful resource and one of my favorite bread books.

 

Dwayne

 

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

My point is that if you bought a TV that didn't work you would return it to the store that you purchased it from, if you bought a car that had problems you would return it to the dealership, if you bought anything that didn't work you would return it.   Why should this be any different?   Effort was put into all of these thing to bring them to fruition, honest effort. I don't deny this.    The authors worked hard on this too.  I know that.   But this book is something that will continue to disappoint because we can't take it back to 'get fixed' as you would a car or a TV.   It's going to stay wrong, we are going to continue to waste our hard earned dollars on ingredients for an end product that may not be what it is intended to be, we will continue to waste our precious time in the kitchen too.    My point was never to embarrass anyone but merely to alert folks to the fact there are problems with these recipes and we don't know if and when all the corrections will be found and posted to the errata sheets.    And think of those folks who don't even know to check for possible errors.   If I make something that doesn't work out the first time I blame me.   I screwed up somewhere--phones ring, door bells ring, folks come over in the middle of baking and I measured wrong or omitted something I though I had added.   I'll try it again a second time but if it fails again I'm done with it.   Now I've wasted my time twice, the cost of ingredients twice.   And the cost of the book once.   I've just come home from returning the book.   After showing the book store clerk all of the errata she called her manager over and the manager stated that "in all her years in book selling these are the most errors she's even seen".   Her words, not mine.   I got my money back in full.   And because I really do like the book very much, I'll probably purchase it again--but not until I see it in it's 4th or 5th printing.   Hopefully it will get that far in the publishing world and all the errors will be corrected by then. But until that time?   People have a right to know what they are spending their hard earned money on, they have a right to know that end products that don't come out of the oven correctly may not be their fault.   Baker Beware.  

fermento's picture
fermento

In over 300 pages, there are about 30-odd "errors", many of them stylistic - so saying this book "doesn't work" is quite mischievous. Indeed, going through the book and marking every one of those errata might take perhaps 10 minutes. Comparing a book to a mechanical device is pointless.

You are entitled to return the book, of course - but to disrespect these esteemed authors by calling the book a "total failure" is beyond the pale in my opinion. You claimed in an earlier thread which you  created on the same subject (again, why create two threads instead of continuing one?): 

I do write notes on the pages to myself but for these mistakes I sat with a bottle of white out and made all the changes that way, thought it would look neater. Shame on this printer. 

Does this mean you actually returned this book damaged? Something doesn't add up.


Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Yes, I returned the book with some of the early found errors already corrected with white out.   When the second batch of errors were found I never entered those or the corrections that came after that so they were still visible to the two ladies in the book store.  Based on this they refunded my money.   And with all due respect, my reason for saying the book was a total failure was from the point of trusting the recipes to work.   I loved the book the moment I saw it.   It is filled with the type of recipes I love to bake.   But now, not knowing if all the errors have yet been found, I don't trust the book and for me, that equals failure and that's why I returned it.   I would never have used it again so why should it take up space on my already crowded cookbook shelves?   Decoration I don't need.   While not Jewish myself (and I'm female and not male as some have thought) I do live in a very Jewish neighboorhood with 2 great bakeries.   I love what I buy there and wanted to duplicate these things in my own home.  So I bought the book.   To me, the book now doesn't work.   So I returned it.    I have a friend, a very good baker, who tried two different recipes with yeast.   Both failed.   She's never baked with yeast since.   This was over 30 years ago.   She still to this day believes she did something wrong.   I think of a newbie baker buying ITJB and having the recipe fail.   She feels guilty.  She tries another recipe.   Doesn't work either.   She may give up baking with yeast too.  And that would be a shame because yeast type baking opens up a whole other world of baking, a wonderful world.  I was trying to alert folks that there are problems with this book and the failure may not lie with them.    Not going for sympathy but my mother died suddenly many years ago when I was 14.  I was the only girl in the family and I had to learn to cook and bake FAST.    I bought cookbooks as my mom's recipes were mostly just a list of ingredients with no instructions given after that--she knew what to do with the ingredients in her head.    I needed clear INSTRUCTIONS--not just ingredient lists.   Thus my cookbook collection began.   I took Latin in high school and this teacher taught what 'errata' meant to me.   She said check your books for mistakes, you'll be surprised how many there are.   I've been doing it ever since, sometimes writing to the publisher  before computers were household items.   Just now I pulled 5 cookbooks off my shelves, the only criteria being that they all were published within the last 5 years and all be by different publishers.     After an internet search on each of them I found errata on only one and this was '1 T. of cinn.' while it should have been '1 t. of cinn.'   One mistake in 5 books.   And yes, maybe the authors didn't care to publish errata on their books, ok, I can understand that.   But the amount of mistakes in ITJB?  Nope, I'm sorry, too many for me and the book went back.    And I do think publishing cookbooks must be the hardest to do, esp. if you have an editor who doesn't cook or bake.   They then wouldn't recognize '2 C. salt' might be wrong and spell check certainly wouldn't catch that either so the recipes pass with flying colors.    With ITJB, baker beware, proceed with caution, the fault may not lie with you--that's all I'm saying.    I do hope this book makes it to multiple printings as I would very much like to repurchase it when all the corrections have been made.   I never said the book was bad, I said many things in it were wrong.   There is a difference.    Joey the Doeyo

varda's picture
varda

I have baked three truly excellent recipes from this book - two of which were absolutely unique, and the third which I could not find elsewhere.   I have seen countless posts of excellent efforts that people have made using this book.   If you don't like it fine - you got your money back.   Enough already.  -Varda

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Trust me, it bothers me as much as -- if not more than it bothers you that those mistakes are in there and we're doing our best to rectify them.

Having said that, I also recognize that you can't please everyone, and so being my own worst critic is the best I can do. We included those unpublished chapters because we felt they were important enough to have been made public and because the economics of publishing made it financially unfeasible for Camino to include them in the bound book.

I hope for the sake of your own self-esteem, Doeyo, that you're as demanding of yourself as you are of others.

Stan

yy's picture
yy

While I do not agree with the content in Doeyo's post, I am somewhat disturbed by the tone of the backlash against his commentary. I know that there is a policy of respect here on TFL, but I do believe that it was well within Doeyo's right to voice his opinion. I wonder if we're holdin Doeyo to a different standard because Stan and Norm are part of this online community and we all take criticism against ITJB a little bit personally. There are certainly moments in the original post where the phrasing is less than diplomatic, but nowhere do I see any personal attacks. I do applaud Stan for handling criticism with such grace. 

noonesperfect's picture
noonesperfect

I don't see the responses as a backlash.  I think most people are fine with Doeyo having and stating his opinion and his reaction to the book and the errata, but they also feel compelled to voice their opinions.  I gave a copy of the book to a friend as a gift, and it will be a little embarassing to have to also provide the errata sheets, so I can understand Doeyo's feelings.  Personally, I love the book and have no problem with the corrections, but I certainly understand someone reacting differently.

 

brad

varda's picture
varda

and look at what people had to say to this poster - http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13075/errors-hammelman-and-dimuzio-bread-books.   People do love the books they love.   -Varda

PaddyL's picture
PaddyL

Maybe because the authors are contributors to this site that you're all so upset by this review, I don't know, but a book review, good or bad, can be very helpful to some.  I do read book reviews all the time, whether for cookbooks or other types, and sometimes I go with them, sometimes I don't, but you really shouldn't fault someone who has an opinion that differs from your own.

G-man's picture
G-man

Maybe it's due to immersion in the world of roleplaying since I was just barely a teenager, but I'm suspicious when any manual doesn't come with any errata. That means the authors don't care about their readers, they've put their hunk of garbage out there and they're done with it. Errata means you not only can admit to your mistakes, but you care about your work enough to provide corrections at no extra charge. Not everyone does this. Much of my recreational time has been spent thinking of ways to fix problems that others have created through anything from a misunderstanding of their own mechanics to simply not wording things properly. In my group of friends we call these "house rules". We also call it "fun".

Many school textbooks I've bought (paying hundreds of dollars, in many cases) have had many, many pages of errata. Most of these have gone uncorrected by publishers and authors, who leave it to instructors to do so. The best provide a website that details errata by chapter. This is not the norm. Even into the ninth or tenth edition, these errors remain, and again, if you're lucky you get errata that address the issues. Even then not all issues get addressed all the time.

You deal with it and you move on.

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I like the car/book metaphor because it lends itself to YMMV ("your mileage may vary").  

The acknowledged errors in the first edition of ITJB are no big deal to some, for others they are showstoppers.  Ain't nothing wrong with either position, just different expectations.

Hopefully this thread will help other folks who are interested in the book make an informed decision about whether to buy the book now or wait for an updated edition.

-F

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

With all that's been said, how can anyone call ITJB a "failure" is beyond me.  Looking at the book as a whole, there is so much richness that goes way beyond recipes.  Understandably, with all the detail involved in preserving and presenting Norm's many recipes in multiple measurements, a handful of recipes needing correction is not surprising or unusual.  Not to name names, but there are a couple of bread books out there by a celebrated baker in upstate NY who was way too lackadaisical in publishing the errata in his books.  Because ITJB has been so closely tied to the TFL community, its testers and its participants, a book not born in a self-serving bubble, we are the lucky recipients of corrections motivated by a relationship with this community.  Ginsberg and Berg wanted to get it right for all of us--and quickly.  How much easier for them to just let things go as printed.  Just think of all the time they could have saved and put to their own use.  We are lucky to be part of their community. 

Joy

EvaB's picture
EvaB

but its quite normal to find errors in books, just read a novel, I find syntax errors, grammar errors, and spelling errors, not to mention those pesky errors of which to,two or too to use and other things like slided instead of slid, etc!

I have a cook book my mother got as a gift in the 1950's, she found a number of errors in the book, and has noted them on the recipe, she would never have thought of returning the book, she just used it and made it hers!

Its sad that the publisher didn't get a perfect copy the first time around, but hey whose perfect? Stan and Norm worked hard on it, but they certainly didn't stand over the publisher and say no you can't format the book this way, and I doubt they were the ones who did the typesetting for it. Which is all done these days on a computer, and if the person doing can't read properly or keep his place in the recipe while doing it, then there are errors, and while I am sure Stan and Norm were asked to check over the completed book, who knows what happened between their checking and the printing, someone might have decided to run a grammar checker on it, and I know from experience that those don't work well!

Its a book, get over the whole deal, Stan and Norm are trying their best to provide corrections, it didn't take me half an hour to get the errata and mark it in the book, yes it would be a bit embarrasing to have to give someone you gave it to as a gift the errata pages, but hey, things happen, and in the Navaho world, the weavers are told the story about the weaver who got so big for her britches that she was put down by the Gods, and now proper Navaho weavers don't make perfect rugs, there is always a mistake so the Gods don't think they are bragging.

And by the way someone won a suit against a car maker because they didn't get the 50 miles per gallon that was touted so that milage may vary doesn't mean that they can get away with huge difference, vary would to me be maybe 52-55 miles per on the high side, or maybe as low as 45 on the low side, but if it was like my Pinto which was supposed to get 30, and barely got 20 that is just too big a varience.

The right to complain and say its not accurate is one thing but to be so snarky as to call it a total failure and take it back is another! I have over 100 cookbooks, and there isn't one that doesn't have a mistake, and some have many more than Stan's, I just either chalk it up to experience or don't use that book, but I would never take it back unless it had a whole chapeter or several pages missing then its a failure on the part of the printer not the author!

golfermd's picture
golfermd

I would like to recommend that this thread be closed. It's getting to a point where any positive outcomes are not likely to happen. All of us have opinions on the book mine happen to be positive, but kind of useless at this point. It's good to have an open sharing of thoughts, but there comes a time when this is no longer productive.

Dan

joyfulbaker's picture
joyfulbaker

Thanks, Dan.  I couldn't agree more.

Joy

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

It is interesting to me that when someone has an issue that everyone seems to disagree with, they say, "let's stop talking about this" or "let's close the subject". Well, I happen to agree with the OP, the mistakes were not small or just a handful. Some were significant and then some of the error fixes had errors in them and had additional corrections. That is not acceptable to me. I have been cooking and baking for over 50 years and have NEVER seen so many mistakes whether they were due to the publisher or the author. I'm glad the author is trying to correct things and stand behind the fixes, but they are excessive. I have not spoken up sooner because I knew how much work went into this endeavor. But I also knew when someone expresses an opinion that TLFers do not like, they get jumped on. I bought a cookbook, not a trip through memory lane. Oh, maybe I did, didn't I. Jean P.(VA)

yy's picture
yy

On principle, I also agree that this thread should NOT be closed. I believe that those who desire to leave an additional comment should be able to do so, as long as they adhere to the rules of common courtesy that govern this site. There is a link to unsubscribe from this thread in every email notification should anyone no longer be interested in the subject. 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

I haven't closed it for this reason -- that people should be able to say what they want as long as they are respectful -- but I'll also add there that I don't see a reason to dogpile or beat a dead horse.  Any reader who has gotten this far down the thread is aware that there are errors in the book, errors that don't greatly concern some purchasers but that others find extremely objectionable.  Such a reader should have enough information to make an informed decision about whether this book is for them as it is right now.  

Personally, I'm a technology guy and frequently an early adoptor, so I guess I'm used to thing not working perfectly on first release.  If anything, I find the flaws in early versions of things like Android phones endearing.  But if what you are expecting is something as slick as an iPhone, you'll be understandably disappointed with something less polished.

-Floyd   

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Yes, there are lots of errors in this edition to the book. The bakers that are working on the challenges each week and testing these recipes as they are published (and changed through errata notes), are the key to checking out where the errors are and how to work them out... I am sure Stan and Norm are noting the results and will use this information in the future editions of this cookbook, and will very carefully watch the editing and publishing... I can't think of anything that would need to be closely proofread more than recipes.  Be patient, and watch for those corrections to be printed.  THERE WERE PRE-TESTERS FOR THIS BOOK AND NOW THERE ARE POST-TESTERS... Stan and Norm have never complained about the changes people have noted. This must be very hard for them, as creating the book was... give them a break!

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

Please note, we HAVE given them a break. I did not make any comments until now and have had the book for some time. What I really complain about is when a poster says something that is different from the general thought, they get jumped on. I thought Doeys comments were clear, kind and to the point.  They were all true as she saw them. There is nothing wrong with that.  She didn't call anyone names or use any bad language. I don't expect perfection in a new book, but these mistakes were generally not "typos".  Jean P. (VA)

G-man's picture
G-man

This is a learning experience for you both, I'd imagine, Stan and Norm. Don't ever, EVER release unpublished chapters, since that is a mark against you, apparently? Not in my world, but again I'm used to dealing with countless pages of errata in manuals I spend hundreds of dollars on. Mine may be a special case.

I appreciate the publication of unpublished chapters. I see this as the action of folks who truly, deeply care about what they've made, enough to go above and beyond and provide bonus material free of charge. Page and chapter count is pure gold in the world of gaming, and I'm assuming that extends to other areas of the publishing world. Folks in the gaming community tend to understand the limitations of page count and the resources that go into producing a new manual. Research, production, editing, and publication all have very severe time restraints, schedules, and deadlines. For a first-time author or even a first edition of a manual written by an established author, that can be crippling. I like your book, and I really hope you find more success in future editions.

Thank you so very much for all that you've done, both for this community and to enrich the larger baking community. Every new book produced is a lesson, and failures teach more effectively than successes.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

"If you don't make mistakes, you're not tackling the right problems," ... and another one that says, "Don't let the perfect obstruct the good."

Do I wish that this forum topic had no reason to exist? Emphatically, yes.

On the other hand, it does; we live in the real world populated by fallible mortals, and have to make a lot of scrambled eggs and lemonade in the process.

I appreciate all the comments and promise that we'll do everything we can to make sure the problems are addressed promptly and fully.

Stan

HeidiH's picture
HeidiH

As this article by Marian Burros in the New York Times makes clear, all cookbooks are likely to be rife with errors. http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/17/dining/cookbook-follies-recipes-that-fail.html 

In 2010, Penguin Press had to destroy 7000 copies of a cookbook with a recipe that called for "freshly ground black people."  Cookbook publishers, with very rare exceptions, do not have testing kitchens and do not test the recipes. 

Stan and Norm's cookbook was tested more than most by the folks in TFL.  What is different here is that the errata are being gathered and made available to us.  Use the number of errors in ITJB as you would a barometer reading for what to expect of other cookbooks.  It is likely, because of the testing by TFL folks and the attention to detail of the authors, to have fewer errors than most.

Oh, and the index in it?  That was my first draft which the editor mistakenly put in as is.  The final draft of the index is up on Stan's site.  Is this unusual?  Not at all.  Indexers rant incessantly about editors putting in the wrong index or changing the pages after the index was done.

Heidi (sometime indexer, dyed-in-the-wool cataloger, and retired library science professor)

Elagins's picture
Elagins

It makes me feel a lot better -- at least that we're in pretty good company.

Stan

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

I will point out that the errata for Hamelman's Bread take up eight printed pages. Some are inconsequential, others are not; just as with ITJB.

edit 4 Mar 2012: I just noticed dwcoleman had already noted this in an earlier comment. I apologize for the redundancy.  ~gt

re-edit 4 Mar 2012: Correcting for a bad case of fat finger syndrome. ~gt

cheers,

gary

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Just DO it... and then BUILD A BRIDGE and Get over it!!! Go get your money back... and pray that you don't find any of the misprints that are undoubtedly in the most reproduced book in history, The Bible.  Errors happen, editors miss things, formulas are mis-calculated.... but most people don't make finding all that their life purpose... some do, most of those are editors, and authors. Those who know and love baking, recognize first or learn from the errors and try to fix them... a more nurturing, kinder attitude... but some don't.  Share with those who care, I am sure you can find someone... but maybe not so much at this site.

Sincerely, Diane

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Um, gmagmabaking?  You've come a little late to this party--I returned the book almost a month ago--the post stating this has already happened appears farther up in the thread...it seems you missed it though.    And your sentence above:    'Share with those who care, I am sure you can find someone... but maybe not so much at this site'--wow, you've got that right!    Thank the Lord...  

Joey the Doeyo

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Must have missed that post, sorry. My apologies. Happy Baking. 

Stuart Borken's picture
Stuart Borken

I spent a good part of this weekend afternoon correcting errors in the book, and because I bought 2 copies I spent twice the time folks with one copy spent.  I planned to give one copy of the book as a gift....I won't do that now.  It's a mess.  There are hand written corrections all over the place.  If a second printing comes out with all the corrections made I would buy that and toss the originals.

larryparis10's picture
larryparis10

The errors belong, most of all I think, to the authors who surely saw galleys of their work before it was published. So many errors are not in the category of oops, but sloppy. Whatever your personal take is on errors, I would like to know about them before I buy the book, not afterward, that's why there are book critics and publications to give them a platform to express what they find. Those roles are played for us by Joe Doeyo and TFL and its owners.  As for the authors, taking payment for their book makes them professionals, so they should be able to take the heat or get out of the "kitchen."

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Dear Larryparis10,  thank you for your kind words.   While I just about got crucified on this site for what I typed, more and more I'm hearing from folks who agree with me on this matter.   This site appears to consist of a friendly, tight little group that also have the book's authors in attendance and when a 'newbie' stated something contrary to their thoughts and feelings it just started a whole 'to-do'.   What I still don't understand is that considering the fact that folks on this site did some of the pre-printing and post-printing recipe testing how did all these errors still appear?  Taking that into consideration 'methinks they doth protest too much...as the fault lies not in the stars but in ourselves' (forgive me William!).   Joey the Doeyo

 

Elagins's picture
Elagins

I'd like to remind you, Joey the Doeyo, that we've been very forthcoming about the errors in the book and have taken pains to get the errata out as quickly and fully as possible, so I'm reluctant to go along with your implication that somehow my and Norm's participation in TFL constitutes some sort of eminence grise whose aim is to quash criticism. Far from it; painful as it sometimes is, we welcome the criticism because it means that people (a) have been using the book, and (b) care enough to want to share their findings (and frustrations) with others.

What I do have trouble with, as do others here, I think, is  your uncompromising rigidity towards the fact that errors are an inevitable part of the cookbook world. If you'd read the fine Marian Burros article that HeidiH references elsewhere in this thread, you would have seen that mistakes happen everywhere, and that, by the standards of the cookbook world, ITJB's errata hardly represent the extreme end of the distribution curve -- certainly not enough to warrant condemning the whole book as "a total failure."

As I've said elsewhere, I'm pained that the errors found their way into print, and accept responsibility for that. Since it's impossible to unpublish a book and economically suicidal for a publisher to withdraw them from the market, we've done what other authors and publishers have done for centuries -- namely acknowledge and rectify the errors as best we can.

I'm saddened that your intolerance of mistakes has apparently blinded you to the things that are good in ITJB -- the error-free majority of recipes and the evocation of a particular time and place.  However, that's simply my opinion; you clearly have your own ideas, and your words speak unequivocally for themselves.

Stan Ginsberg

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Dear Stan and Everybody Else,   Wow.  Go away for a few days and look what happens....I thought we were all done with this but apparently not.  OK, here we go again and it's the last time I'm typing it--

1.)  My opinions are just that:   mine.    I respect all of you others and your opinion of this book--you want to work with the errors and put the corrections in the book as you go along and find them?   Knock your socks off and God bless.   I don't want to do that as I feel I shouldn't have to.  

 2.) NO ONE has to agree with me but my thanks to all of you who did and do.

3.) I feel the book is a failure because I cannot trust it (see # 1 above).  We are getting corrections and corrections of the corrections.   I just don't have the time and $ to waste on something that is wrong. 

4.)  Yes, of course, I recognize the time and effort - and also the hopes and dreams - that went into this book.   When a totally corrected copy becomes available it will become a great book, if not a classic, on the subject of Jewish baking. But right now, for me, it's just a history book, not a cookbook, as I do not trust the recipes.   And a history book I don't need.   Stan, I'm certain there are some recipes that are error free in your book--but are they the majority?  I don't know and again, don't have the time or $ to discover this for myself.

5.)  Errors in other cookbooks:   Yes, I'm sure there are but honestly?   I own prob. 1,000 cookbooks and yes, the 1,000 is no typo (and truth be told, it's prob. more than that).   I had to start cooking and baking when I was 14, the only girl in the family, when my mother died suddenly.   I relied on cookbooks to teach me everything I needed to know and really racking my brain here...I can't think of any recipe that didn't turn out right.   Really.   Maybe the taste was lousy as new recipes that we 'taste' in our minds first sometimes aren't the flavors we imagined them to be when it's cooked but was I just lucky in buying error free books?   Beats me...I really don't know.   But this amount of errors?   With the pre & post testers?  This number wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy exceeds the acceptable in my opinion (again, see # 1 above).   Some one, I think in the other thread that got started, mentioned that people involved with bringing this book to fruition was using Excel to increase or decrease quantities of ingredients so that the quantity of ingredients was correct for the home baker.   I have a hunch this is where the majority of your errors got started.  I'm an accountant and use Excel all day long.   You're a baker and I'm guessing don't use it as much as I do.    Not pointing fingers here at anyone so please don't anyone get their knickers all bunchy on me, but if you aren't really fluent in 'speaking' Excel you can end up with something that looks soooooooooo right but is really sooooooooooo wrong.    Excel.   Love it and hate it but I can't function without it in my profession.

I really intend to repurchase this book when it's in it's reprint phase and I truely hope it does get there.   My typings were just a 'heads up' to those, especially newbie bakers, that there are major things wrong with many of the recipes and you may not be getting the end product that you think you will.    It's back to if you buy something that doesn't work you return it, why should a book be any different?    It's a case of not getting what we paid for.   

Listen folks, gotta go quickly here, comment - don't comment - but I'm done with this -- so Stan?  You may may exhale fully now!    Joey the Doeyo

 

 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Respectfully, Joey, your persecution complex is unbecoming.  You hardly got "crucified" here.  You chose to voice your criticism as globally coming from all of "those of us who bought it"... Plenty of us who bought it didn't share your opinion or reaction.  For those of us who felt differently to state that we had a different reaction than you did is hardly a case of the cool kids shunning a newbie. We just disagree.

As you've said though, there are a number of folks who did agree with your assessment.  I appreciate you and others expressing your opinions candidly and hope you will continue to while accepting that other folks' mileage may differ.  It doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other wrong, just that we judge this book by different criterion.  

I found it an immensely rewarding read.  I'll admit that I've baked very few of the recipes though and did not judge it by the success or failure of what was coming out of my oven.  For a potential book purchaser to know about both your experience and mine gives them a tremendous amount of information to make a decision with.  They are bettered by both of us.

Regards,

-Floyd 

msbreadbaker's picture
msbreadbaker

Floyd, Respectfully to you, but your sentence "We just disagree" was totally incorrect. Hardly anybody "just disagreed". Joey was jumped on from the start. I got y'alls message quickly. "How dare she". If only everyone discussed the book that would have been fine, but most were out to get the messenger. When the corrections had errors in them, that was a bit much. I always like to read Gary Turner, but in this last instance, he just repeated himself. And Karin! Whew, what a spew from you, I thought more of you than that. None of the words you used were anywhere near what was acutally said.

I will repeat something I've said before, on this site if one presents an opposing opinion, they get jumped on. I've seen it many times. I, for one, after decades of using cookbooks have never come across so many errors as in the book of which we are speaking. Thanks to the correctors, but for heaven sakes people, yes go back to baking. Jean Pearce, Virginia

 

Floydm's picture
Floydm

No, really, we just disagree.  Looking back, I rarely see "how dare [he or] she", I see "a) please don't be rude to a community member" and "b) please don't speak for me."  Those are very different than "you can't say that here" (groupthink).

Look at EHanner's post from a few weeks previous on the same topic: he was just as candid and just as critical.  But he was still courteous and recognized the validity of other opinions.  ++ for that.  

I have not been removing comments from this thread because it is good to get all sides out, but I will begin removing comments with unnecessarily personal statements like "what a spew from you, I thought more of you than that."  That serves what purpose now?  Karin's comment was tongue-in-cheek, clearly, meant to elicit a laugh, not an insult.

-Floyd

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Of course it was!

Karin

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

If you, Joey the Doeyo, feel put upon, it's not because of some united we stand against all criticism clique, it's because you made an absolutely ignorant and asinine statement, "Ya know, the more I read about this book the more I realize it's a total failure." 

It is patently obvious that the book is nowhere near being a failure, and certainly not a "total failure". I have made several of the breads and cakes, all without problems — OK, I still can't pleat the dough for Kaiser rolls worth a damn, but that's not the book's fault. Besides the recipes, there is a wealth of well researched stories and histories of the European Jews and their migration to the US. That, in itself is worth the price of admission. 

There is no argument made that the book is error free, nor is there any movement to suppress reporting those errors, which Stan readily publishes in the errata page of the book's site. The number of errors is disappointing, but not the least unusual for any book that is not strictly prose, viz. Hamelman's Bread, which I mentioned earlier. Publishers have editors, proof readers and typesetters who are all expert at catching and correcting errors in spelling, grammar, &c., but none of the people are knowledgeable in the technical areas. All cookbooks, and technical manuals are full of non-grammatical  errors unless it's multiple revisions down the pike.

I'll leave it to someone with more expert, detailed knowledge of printing to explain to you why your gripe about the unpublished chapters  has zero merit. Hint: it has to do with the number of pages per sheet.

So please save the oh, poor poor put upon me routine for when you haven't brought it upon yourself.

gary

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

It is not the pointing out the errors that is the issue.  Those notations are priceless. The authors, and bakers, can make those changes. It is the drama of the "disappointment" that is commanding the attention.  Yeah, there are errors, a bunch of them.  That being noted is what it will take for a better 2nd Edition... wouldn't it be great if every single miscalculation and error were found and corrected before the next printing.  As Gary said, there are great, flawless recipes and a wealth of history in this book, having never been close to a "real Jewish Bakery" this book is a sociology lesson and a history lesson for me.  It is a nostalgic walk down memory lane for many, I bet.  My older sister remembers walking down to the bakeries with my grandmother, and is loving the memory joggers in this book. 
  

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I find that this discussion gets curioser and curioser.

Victimized by a clannish, cult-like clique that doesn't tolerate anyone who dares to question its authority?

A conspiracy between malpracticing authors, abetting testers, and powerful TFL insiders who all take part in this gigantic cover-up?

Are we really talking about a cookbook?

Karin

owlsprings's picture
owlsprings

Karin, 

With all due respect, I have to voice my concern about your choice of language to characterize Joey's passionate expression of "crucifixion." I am not offering a response to defend Joey, and I'm not advocating the censorship of arguments that attempt to convince Joey that she should alter her stated positions. But when you choose to characterize Joey's position with the terms: "clannish, cult-like clique," "conspiracy between malpracticing authors, abetting testers, and powerful TFL insiders.." and "gigantic cover-up," you are committing the fallacy of ad reductio ad absurdium.  You are essentially reducing Joey's claims to an absurd characterization and challenging her claims on that level. I certainly welcome reading your challenges, but this approach I fear will only serve as an incendiary provocation. Moreover, you do not provide any justification for reducing Joey's stated concerns to the level of characterization that you have stated.  If you are concerned that Joey is over reacting and therefore risks leading a valuable discussion on cookbooks, accuracy of formulas, and problems with publishers, then I think that is a fair and important concern to voice. However, I fear that in your approach here you run the same risks of encouraging a digression into wild speculation and pop psychology. To be fair, I think gary.turner, is taking the same unnecessary risks by engaging in unbecoming name calling. Both you and gary.turner have important contributions to offer and I always look forward to reading those. Finally, I want to thank Stan for a very eloquent and honest apologia. That was most appropriate and I hope that he and Norm get things worked out with the publishers and that they do not become too discouraged that they won't think of sharing their creative impulses in the future. Also a big thanks to Floydm, for a most generous and fair minded administration of a very enjoyable and passionate web site. And, of course, thanks to Joey for her conviction and courage. May your doughs always rise! Thanks, Thomas.

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

"To be fair, I think gary.turner, is taking the same unnecessary risks by engaging in unbecoming name calling. "

I suggest you reread my post. You will find that no names were called. I wrote only about the OP's actions and made no reference to the OP personally. Do not confuse an intentionally pointed criticism with being an ad hominem attack.

gary

aytab's picture
aytab

Personally, I would like to applaud everyone from Joey, to everyone who posted on here and the authors. Joey thank you for your opinion of the book and having the guts to speak out against the mistakes in it knowing full well that you were probably going to get some backlash. Thank you to all the other posters both those that support the authors and those that support Joey for speaking, differences of opinion are a good thing. Finally, thank you to the authors who have recognized the errors and have tried to correct them as fast as possible. It is good we all can think differently and express those differences. The other way around is called "Group Think" and it gets nowhere, if everyone agreed with everyone else and just said "What a great book" then no one would have ever pointed out the problems and the authors would never have tried to fix them. 

I watched with my own two eyes right outside my High School the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion, it was a horrible day. You know why the Shuttle exploded that day, "Group Think". All of the scientists said "Oh yeah it's safe to launch" when in reality it was to cold and the o-rings got brittle when it was to cold. It was an O-ring that failed. But none of the scientists were willing to contradict their colleagues, except for one. He said, "You can't launch it's to cold", his reward...he was fired. 

So, differences of opinion and discussing those differences is always helpful. In the case of a cookbook it's fixing a few errors, in the case of a Space Shuttle it could have saved lives.

varda's picture
varda

don't seem to have any effect here.   Perhaps pictures?   (Probably nothing, but hope springs eternal.) 

  Medium  Vienna doubleknots

Bagels

Bialys

Tzitzel crumb

Yeah.   You're right.   Total failure.  

-Varda (who was not a tester and took quite awhile to figure out what ITJB was, but thanks for the insult.)

gmabaking's picture
gmabaking

Your pictures are worth the proverbial "thousand words".  I joined TFL just in time to be one of the testers. I have not commented on this subject because I realize that I am biased in favor of ITJB and find it difficult to not be defensive about criticism that crosses over into rudeness. I also recognize the benefit of bringing errors to the attention of fellow members so that we are not all following along and repeating them. If everyone who found one just tossed the book and never said anything, we would be the poorer.  I think Stan has been very open about appreciating this same thing.

In looking for some of Norm's postings from 2008, it became clear that he has lots of experience with people not understanding and with their being less than kind. I am very glad that he felt so strongly that the recipes needed to be shared if they were to be preserved. The historical background in the book is priceless and well researched. It too is part of our history which needs to be preserved.

My tendency is to be a lurker rather than a contributor, but something about this discussion seems to call for taking a stand. This morning it brought to mind an exchange about personal responsibility to do so:

According to some accounts, Emerson visited Thoreau in jail and asked, "Henry, what are you doing in there?" Thoreau replied, "Waldo, the questions is, what are you doing out there?"

So if tally you must, just please be sure to put my name on the side of life lived fully--errors and all!

 

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Everyone ... back to the kitchen!!!

Bake bread.

Sincerely,    Jeff

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Great comments... but I am with Jeff... let's get baking! Love it.

 

suave's picture
suave

Joey,  I see from your profile that you reside in Vernon Hills, Illinois, which means that I can be at your place in 15 minutes or so.  Would you be willing to part with this worthless tome for $5, cash? 

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Dear Sauve,  thanks for your kind offer but I returned the book to the store that I purchased it from approx. a month ago and got my money back, at which time they pulled all other copies off the shelves.  What they did with those copies I have no idea.  Again, thanks for your kind offer.    Joey the Doeyo

fermento's picture
fermento

...and a beautiful way to close this thread. I hope.

Nothing new being said now, and it's in danger of festering into something which could damage the community of TFL. This is the closest to an internet flame war I've seen here, and thankfully a pretty tame version - but even so it feels at odds with the friendly atmosphere here.

Raising issues of contention is not unusual here, and a good thing if done with grace and good humour as it usually is. Time to move on.

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

Dear Stan and Everybody Else,   Wow.  Go away for a few days and look what happens....I thought we were all done with this but apparently not.  OK, here we go again and it's the last time I'm typing it--

1.)  My opinions are just that:   mine.    I respect all of you others and your opinion of this book--you want to work with the errors and put the corrections in the book as you go along and find them?   Knock your socks off and God bless.   I don't want to do that as I feel I shouldn't have to.  

 2.) NO ONE has to agree with me but my thanks to all of you who did and do.

3.) I feel the book is a failure because I cannot trust it (see # 1 above).  We are getting corrections and corrections of the corrections.   I just don't have the time and $ to waste on something that is wrong. 

4.)  Yes, of course, I recognize the time and effort - and also the hopes and dreams - that went into this book.   When a totally corrected copy becomes available it will become a great book, if not a classic, on the subject of Jewish baking. But right now, for me, it's just a history book, not a cookbook, as I do not trust the recipes.   And a history book I don't need.   Stan, I'm certain there are some recipes that are error free in your book--but are they the majority?  I don't know and again, don't have the time or $ to discover this for myself.

5.)  Errors in other cookbooks:   Yes, I'm sure there are but honestly?   I own prob. 1,000 cookbooks and yes, the 1,000 is no typo (and truth be told, it's prob. more than that).   I had to start cooking and baking when I was 14, the only girl in the family, when my mother died suddenly.   I relied on cookbooks to teach me everything I needed to know and really racking my brain here...I can't think of any recipe that didn't turn out right.   Really.   Maybe the taste was lousy as new recipes that we 'taste' in our minds first sometimes aren't the flavors we imagined them to be when it's cooked but was I just lucky in buying error free books?   Beats me...I really don't know.   But this amount of errors?   With the pre & post testers?  This number wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy exceeds the acceptable in my opinion (again, see # 1 above).   Some one, I think in the other thread that got started, mentioned that people involved with bringing this book to fruition was using Excel to increase or decrease quantities of ingredients so that the quantity of ingredients was correct for the home baker.   I have a hunch this is where the majority of your errors got started.  I'm an accountant and use Excel all day long.   You're a baker and I'm guessing don't use it as much as I do.    Not pointing fingers here at anyone so please don't anyone get their knickers all bunchy on me, but if you aren't really fluent in 'speaking' Excel you can end up with something that looks soooooooooo right but is really sooooooooooo wrong.    Excel.   Love it and hate it but I can't function without it in my profession.

I really intend to repurchase this book when it's in it's reprint phase and I truely hope it does get there.   My typings were just a 'heads up' to those, especially newbie bakers, that there are major things wrong with many of the recipes and you may not be getting the end product that you think you will.    It's back to if you buy something that doesn't work you return it, why should a book be any different?    It's a case of not getting what we paid for.   

Listen folks, gotta go quickly here, comment - don't comment - but I'm done with this -- so Stan?  You may may exhale fully now!    Joey the Doeyo

suave's picture
suave

You should have let it go a month ago, when you got your money back.

Doeyo's picture
Doeyo

I did.   Others didn't.   Had about 10 new comments in my email when I checked it today.    Hence the above.  J

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Just so you know, I've never not exhaled; in fact, my breathing and heart rate have both remained rock-steady normal throughout this whole brouhaha.

Also, I refer to the first line of the next-to-last paragraph on your post of  3/13/2012: "I really intend to repurchase this book when it's in it's reprint phase and I truely hope it does get there."  Truely? I think you mean "truly." Thanks for the sentiment, and let those without guilt cast the first stone.

Stan

gmagmabaking2's picture
gmagmabaking2

Well said.

Yerffej's picture
Yerffej

Stan,

I like your approach.....I really, really do.

Truly.

Jeff

varda's picture
varda

except...  Couldn't we call it a kerfuffle instead of a brouhaha?    (Sorry, I've been doing the NYT crossword puzzle for too many years and waiting for an opportunity to use that word in real life.)

 

Elagins's picture
Elagins

According to the NYT's resident language cop, whom I heard on NPR yesterday, "kerfuffle" is one of those words he execrated, along with"roiled" and "eschew," that are not only exclusively used but exclusively overused, in his view, by NYT and other journalists and never, ever grace the ears of real folks like us. Still, varda, if it pleases you, by all means, let's call it a kerfuffle, a brannigan, a contretemps, whoopdedoo, or any other obscure polysyllable that delights us as it rolls off the tongue!

And Jeff, thanks so much. Without style, what is there? In that world, Oscar Wilde is my hero!

Stan

DeeElle's picture
DeeElle

The response to your comments is in defense of the authors, well respected around these parts.  Your criticism is more correctly directed at the publishers.  The content of the book, from it's wonderful evocation of neighborhoods and cultures, to the photography, to the intelligent structure, is a total success.

The execution of the book suffered some flaws, as many of our baking projects do from time to time. If you provided glorious kaiser rolls to your neighbors for their special luncheon, and the popped them into the microwave oven to warm them for two minuites, and then served them to the guests, wouldn't your feelings be hurt if the guests  all posted their opions of the imcompetent baker  on this or any other forum?

The errata are a nusiance, but should not discourage enjoyment of the book. 

Regards,

DeeElle

 

tananaBrian's picture
tananaBrian

Hmmm... I don't think I've ever read a perfect book yet, and that includes from the established greats in the world of publishing.  I suspect that timelines forced a hurried cross-check on the recipes, but coming from the world of manufacturing (the bulk of my engineering career ...before we shipped all of our manufacturing overseas), I know exactly what it means to hit your target on the calendar or be left behind ...no product on the shelves.  While some of the errors may appear to be 'sloppy' as stated by the original poster (doeyo), I've been personally and privately embarrassed when I've spotted some rather randy mistakes in my own work.  That's life.  That's why hindsight is 20-20 and nothing else is.  The way I see it, is that I do not have the whole story behind why certain mistakes made it into the book and even Norm and Stan probably aren't entirely aware of how some of them got there ...so?  Stan and Norm treat us like friends and neighbors, give us tons of extra goodies on their web site, and have worked very hard to make sure the mistakes are corrected via their published errata.  I think they have demonstrated fantastic integrity and dedication, and I believe their remorse over the mistakes is genuine ...what more can you ask?  I'm glad I have the first edition and I don't mind marking it up to fix the errors... All of my cookbooks are marked up and all of them have 'fine tuning' on the recipes as well ...and zillions of them were not what I'd call 'great' the first time out of the gate.  So?  Roll with it, man ...rollllll with it :).  Bread baking is for the patient...

Norm and Stan:  One last time ...thank you very much for your efforts and support!  The void that would exist without your book being published would be the far greater pain than having to put up with a few errors... especially when they've been so nicely corrected 'live' on your web site.  I thought the price on the book was very fair as well.

Brian

 

G-man's picture
G-man

A cookbook without any markings in my house is a cookbook I don't use, or one I just purchased. Whether it's because of an error (Tbsp instead of tsp? got a couple like that) or because I just don't like the way the recipe tastes (maybe it was because of an error, maybe the recipe wasn't tested, or maybe it's just a matter of taste), a cookbook is an interactive experience. Treating a cookbook like a finished, concrete product that is closed to further input from you, the reader, is missing the point. Of course, that's my opinion, but it seems to me that if recipes weren't meant to be changed, ever, the culinary arts wouldn't have evolved much since Roman times. Obviously this isn't the case.

HeidiH's picture
HeidiH

"I was a Cookbook Ghostwriter" by Julia Moskin is in the March 13th NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/dining/i-was-a-cookbook-ghostwriter.html?_r=1

The online comments for this next one read very like the conversation we've had on TFL.  The article's a fun read, too.  "Cookbook Errors: Recipes for Disaster" by Felicity Cloake (The Guardian 9/19/2011): http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/sep/19/cookbook-errors-recipes-for-disaster

In a previous post, I mentioned "Cookbook Follies: Recipes That Fail" (NYT 9/17/1997), a kind of classic on the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/17/dining/cookbook-follies-recipes-that-fail.html

Oh, and not that I would recommend reading this next, but it places my own attention to (and proclivity for making) errors in context.  I am co-author of "Secondary and Tertiary Citing: A Study of Referencing Behavior in the Literature of Citation Analysis Deriving from the Ortega Hypothesis of Cole and Cole" (The Library Quarterly 10/1995) which was a bibliometric study using errors in citations and quotes to assess influence in interpretation of text.  Blood was sweat to remove errors from this article both by the authors (who were PhD students at the time), their academic advisors, the editorial staff of the journal and the peer reviewers who reviewed it twice before publication.  I got to see the final galleys before it went to press.  After all that, there's an error in the first sentence!

 

 

fermento's picture
fermento

    After all that, there's an error in the first sentence

...and I'm guessing the first one to point it out was someone who never achieves anything, but is always happy to gripe about others' petty mistakes....

We can only learn from, and marvel at, their apparent perfection...   : )

 

HeidiH's picture
HeidiH

There I was, all thrilled to get the final thing, I opened the mag, started to reread my work of art, and there it was.  Took the wind out of my sails!

fermento's picture
fermento

...that's the other classic way! I think the more people you have checking, the more this is likely to happen - everyone assumes everyone else is thoroughly checking.

It's bizarre how, no matter how obscure the error, or how hidden it is, it's invariably the first thing you see when you pick up the newly printed book. Duh!

cakegirl's picture
cakegirl

I love this book. I grew up in East New York and remember walking into bakeries where there were tray and trays of cooling Kaiser Rolls. I can still remember that warm, welcoming smell.

This book is like going home to me. 

I baked one recipe so far, Aunt Lillian's Apple Cake. I baked it in a tube pan. Everyone who had a piece fell in love with it. It is now my favorite cake. I'll be making it again later this week.