Can you post the formula, as I'm tempted to think there is something else that can be done to tweak it.
Egg enriches the dough and gives colour. You can use soya milk and soya flour blended to a paste, but it's a very poor substitute on a number of levels!
Your base recipe seems fine, although I can only confirm that if you include more detail on the "Poolish"...how much water, flour, yeast, and if any sugar or salt is added. Also, you do not list your spice and fruit content to turn them into Hot Cross Buns.
You could try changing the balance from whole egg, and reducing the amount of white/increasing the yoke. If the egg is at fault for causing drying out, it will be the white that is the cause. However, I'm not convinced that the fault lies with the egg. It could be more to do with your process?
If you want me to look further at this please add in the details requested above
Yes, Matt, it's called a flying sponge, and it's ideal for all enriched doughs because it gets the yeasts working really quickly.
It's not like a poolish or any other sort of pre-ferment. The sponge has a little flour, a little sugar, all of the yeast blended to a batter using warm water to achieve a mixed temp of around 38*C. The aim is purely to get the yeasts to work, not to encourage all the other changes in the dough which your other pre-ferments encourage.
Remember that your enriching ingredients all have improving effects in their own right, so for a commercial product and process, I reckon this is hard to beat for the likes of Hot Cross Buns, and it generally works really well at home too. The key to get to grips with is that yeast struggles to thrive in the company of enriching ingredients for a variety of reasons [eg. spice is acidic, fat keeps out the oxygen, excess sugar is more food than yeast can cope with; there is osmosis and all manner of things going on.
In your formula for your final dough, have you included the ingredients for the poolish within the flour, water and yeast as quoted? If not, your liquid totals seem too high. And your enriching ingredients are pretty low for something as lovely as Hot Cross Buns.
In that case your fat and sugar levels could be increased and that would really help to stop your buns drying out. Your overall liquid is a bit low. I've only used commercial liquid bun spice and found it pretty ghastly.
1/4 cup softened silken tofu = 1 egg (best for dense cakes and brownies - blend with other wet ingredients until completely smooth). For lighter cakes use only 2 "tofu eggs" for 3 real ones.
1/4 cup soy yogurt = 1 egg (same as silken tofu)
1/2 ripe banana, blended = 1 egg (for quick breads, muffins, cakes, pancakes where banana taste is okay).
egg replacer is best used for cookies (but doesn't taste as good as other replacements). Ground flaxseed can replace eggs in pancakes and whole grain recipes.
You have to try what works best. I don't know what fat you plan to use - cakes made with oil instead of butter or shortening are often moister, too.
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formula
Hi Matt,
Can you post the formula, as I'm tempted to think there is something else that can be done to tweak it.
Egg enriches the dough and gives colour. You can use soya milk and soya flour blended to a paste, but it's a very poor substitute on a number of levels!
Best wishes
Andy
sure... this is what I've
sure... this is what I've used
50% poolish fermented for 8 hours
FINAL DOUGH
Flour 100%
Water 50%
Yeast 6%
Caster sugar 10%
Egg 11%
Fat 10%
Salt 2%
Milk powder 4%
try here for now
Hi Matt,
I make Hot Cross Buns with just a short ferment used, and have not had a problem with them drying out. Recipe is posted here:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15382/ananda039s-2nd-blog-hot-cross-buns
Your base recipe seems fine, although I can only confirm that if you include more detail on the "Poolish"...how much water, flour, yeast, and if any sugar or salt is added. Also, you do not list your spice and fruit content to turn them into Hot Cross Buns.
You could try changing the balance from whole egg, and reducing the amount of white/increasing the yoke. If the egg is at fault for causing drying out, it will be the white that is the cause. However, I'm not convinced that the fault lies with the egg. It could be more to do with your process?
If you want me to look further at this please add in the details requested above
Best wishes
Andy
Thanks for the link andy...
Thanks for the link andy... will try your formula next time!
My poolish is 50% flour and 50% water, 0.7% yeast fermented for 8 hours at room temperature
So how do you get away with a short fermentation? is it to do with including the sugar?
Many thanks
Matt
Flying sponge
Yes, Matt, it's called a flying sponge, and it's ideal for all enriched doughs because it gets the yeasts working really quickly.
It's not like a poolish or any other sort of pre-ferment. The sponge has a little flour, a little sugar, all of the yeast blended to a batter using warm water to achieve a mixed temp of around 38*C. The aim is purely to get the yeasts to work, not to encourage all the other changes in the dough which your other pre-ferments encourage.
Remember that your enriching ingredients all have improving effects in their own right, so for a commercial product and process, I reckon this is hard to beat for the likes of Hot Cross Buns, and it generally works really well at home too. The key to get to grips with is that yeast struggles to thrive in the company of enriching ingredients for a variety of reasons [eg. spice is acidic, fat keeps out the oxygen, excess sugar is more food than yeast can cope with; there is osmosis and all manner of things going on.
In your formula for your final dough, have you included the ingredients for the poolish within the flour, water and yeast as quoted? If not, your liquid totals seem too high. And your enriching ingredients are pretty low for something as lovely as Hot Cross Buns.
Best wishes
Andy
Thanks for that information
Thanks for that information Andy... really fascinated by the science of bread making!
Its 50% of the total flour and 50% of the total water in the poolish.... I use liquid bun spice which i soak into my fruit before adding to the dough
Many thanks
Matt
Gotcha
Ok Matt,
In that case your fat and sugar levels could be increased and that would really help to stop your buns drying out. Your overall liquid is a bit low. I've only used commercial liquid bun spice and found it pretty ghastly.
Best wishes
Andy
Egg replacement
There are a few options (vegan and non vegan):
1 1/2 tbsp. sourcream = 1 egg (best for cookies, cakes, muffins, pies)
1/4 cup softened silken tofu = 1 egg (best for dense cakes and brownies - blend with other wet ingredients until completely smooth). For lighter cakes use only 2 "tofu eggs" for 3 real ones.
1/4 cup soy yogurt = 1 egg (same as silken tofu)
1/2 ripe banana, blended = 1 egg (for quick breads, muffins, cakes, pancakes where banana taste is okay).
egg replacer is best used for cookies (but doesn't taste as good as other replacements). Ground flaxseed can replace eggs in pancakes and whole grain recipes.
You have to try what works best. I don't know what fat you plan to use - cakes made with oil instead of butter or shortening are often moister, too.
Karin
Thanks for the tips Karin,
Thanks for the tips Karin, may try these at some point :-)
I agree with Andy
I don't think the egg is the culprit for your dry dough, either.
And Andy is one of TFL most knowledgeable contributors! (I'll check out your Hot Cross Bun recipe, Andy).
Karin