The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

lack of volume in white baps

Matt Edy's picture
Matt Edy

lack of volume in white baps

Hi guys.... just wondering if anyone can suggest why i got a lack in volume when making white baps with this recipe;


Poolish (3 hours)

195g organic type 4 flour

195g water

3g yeast (fresh)


155g flour

18g water

7g yeast (fresh)

7g salt

5g caster sugar

18g solid vegetable fat

14g milk powder

Hand kneaded for 8-10 minutes, then bulk fermented at room temperature for 40 minutes, with a stretch and fold half way. Scaled and shaped, proofed for 2 hours at room temperature, baked for 15 minutes a 220 degrees...

clazar123's picture

Never heard of baps before-are you in the UK? I gather they are soft white rolls? Have you seen this recipe from Dan Lepard?

In comparing what you have and what his recipe is, I wonder if you increased your hydration and fat you may have a bit more volume. Also, I don't know what organic type 4 flour is. Could the flour you are using have an impact on the volume.

Does the dough about double in volume if the initial rise is only 40 minutes? I have not worked with fresh yeast so I can't judge if 7g seems to be normal amount or a small amount. If it is on the lower end of yeast amounts for fresh yeast, then the dough may need more time to develop especially since it proofs for 2 hours. Which raises the question-is it overproofed?

Some things to consider!

PaddyL's picture

I've made baps quite often and they're simple and straightforward.  Why would you use cornstarch, or cornflour, in the sponge?  Mine came out lovely and soft and chewy without using a sponge at all.

ananda's picture

Flour 195 + 155 = 350                     100%

Water 195 + 18 = 213                      60.9%

Yeast 3 + 7 =10                                3.5%

Salt 7                                                  2%

Fat 18                                                 5.1%

Milk P 14                                            4%

Sugar 5                                              1.4%

Matt, there is nothing wrong with the formula, although I would make the following changes:

There is too much pre-fermented flour here.   I would swap over and use 155 each flour and water in the Poolish, with 195 flour and 58 water in the final dough.

Your DDT should be 26 -28*C.   Dough should be well-developed and S&F is unnecessary for this type of dough.   Increase BFT to 1 hour minimum and allow for resting time when scaling and shaping your baps.

This should allow you to cut down final proof time, so long as you can hold DT at 28*C and keep product covered.

Lastly, increase the bake temperature if you can.   It is possible to bake these type of rolls in 10 minutes.   If you can do this, you should get better spring as the dough pieces hit the hotter oven.

Did you get my responses to your previous post?   Acknowledgement of support offered is always appreciated by posters who go out of their way to help people.

All good wishes


Matt Edy's picture
Matt Edy

Sorry Andy, been busy with work etc.... I appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my posts :-)

A few questions....

What is the easiest way to maintain ample dough temperature?

After bulk fermentation where a S&F is not used, should the dough be fully degassed before pre-shaping?

What ratio of prefermented flour would be a minimum, and what would be a maximum?

Many thanks...


ananda's picture

Hi Matt,

Do you know how to calculate dough temperatures?   If not, send me a pm and I'll reply showing you how to do it.

Maintaining DT in cold UK is not easy is it?   I keep my doughs covered near to my multi burning stove, as that's the obvious warm spot to maintain DDT.   Basically you need to find somewhere in your house to do the same.   But not too warm, as that is worse than a couple of degrees too cool.   Keep the dough covered, draft-free and at a regular temp between 25 and 28*C should be fine.

Yes, for white rolls the dough should be de-gassed.   That's why I emphasized the need to allow rest at the scaling, dividing and shaping stage, so the dough is not over-worked.

Ratios pre-fermented flour: depends on your taste, and on the product you are making.   Between 10 and 50% would be my parameters.

Best wishes


ps. One other thought is that you could easily extend the ferment time of the Poolish, as 3 hours is quite short unless you are doing "ferment and dough", or "flying sponge".   These involve use of very wet pre-ferments made with significantly more yeast, and are taken after around 30 minutes as the batter froths right up.   Poolish: 4 - 18 hours?