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Submitted by SourdoLady on July 1, 2005 - 11:47am My Favorite Basic Sourdough LoafI bake a lot of sourdough bread. Over the past several months I have been trying a lot of new techniques and trying to perfect the quality of my loaves. The recipe below is how I am currently making my white bread. Next year I may have a whole different approach, as I am constantly learning and trying new things. Deluxe Sourdough Bread 1 1/4 cups proofed starter Combine the first 5 ingredients. Mix in the flour just until the mixture is a shaggy mass. Cover and let rest for 30 minutes. Add sugar, butter, and salt and mix until all is incorporated. Knead dough until it is smooth and satiny. Cover and let dough rest for 45 minutes. Divide dough into 2 equal portions. Pat each dough portion out into a large, flat circle. Gently stretch and fold the left side over the middle, then the right side over the middle (like folding a letter). Pat down with the palms of hands and repeat the folding with the remaining two unfolded ends. Shape loaves, always keeping the folded side as the bottom. I do free-form oval loaves and place them on parchment paper. Spray the loaves with Pam and cover with plastic. Place in the refrigerator overnight. The next day, take loaves out and let them finish rising at room temperature. They should be very light. Do not rush it or your bread will be dense. While bread is rising, preheat oven and stone to 400� F. I also place a shallow pan of hot water on the bottom rack for steam. When bread is fully risen, slash top and slide onto hot stone. If you don't have a stone, just bake on a baking sheet. After 10 minutes, turn the oven heat down to 375� F. When loaves start to show color, water pan can be removed. Bake until loaves are a nice golden brown. Time will vary according to the shape and size of loaf. Cool on a wire rack. You can brush crust with butter while still hot if you like a soft crust. The small addtion of white whole wheat flour that I use in this bread gives it an interesting depth of flavor that I like. It does not change the color of the bread. I don't know if white whole wheat flour is easily available just anywhere. I am fortunate to live in an area where wheat is grown and milled so I have easy access to various flours.
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Soft crust sourdough bread
Could anyone tell me how to make soft crust sourdough bread? I bought a loaf once from a bake sale and the lady said she used potatoe flakes to feed it. But her loaf was so soft and airy and light, even the crust. I have tried to make it but it comes out heavy and hard crusted. Thanks for any help.... Paula
Soft Crust Sourdough Bread recipe
It just so happens that I have got this recipe rising this afternoon. It is a high, light bread with a soft crust and delicious flavor.
to make one 9" x 5" loaf:
3/4 c. warm water
3 TB dried potato flakes
4 TB sugar
1 t. salt (heaped)
1/2 c. sourdough starter
4 TB vegetable oil
2 1/2 cups to 3 cups bread flour
To make using an electric mixer: put water, potato flakes, sugar, salt, and starter into large bowl of electric mixer. Whisk to combine. Add in 1 1/2 cups flour, whisking well. Add in oil, stirring in well. Add in rest of flour and beat well to combine. Change to dough hook and knead 5 minutes adding flour by tablespoons if needed to form a cohesive, soft dough. Shape by hand a few minutes, then put into a greased bowl to rise.
Let rise until double - 4-6 hours. Gently fold to de-gas, shape into a large loaf and place in greased loaf pan. Let rise again until dough crests the edge of the pan, about 3 hours. Bake at 350 for 30-40 minutes. Cool on a rack.
This is similar to a batter bread recipe my mom used to make, but now I make it with my sourdough starter instead of the water/sugar/potato flakes starter that she used. It is still delicious, and less trouble this way.
Sourdough Deluxe
SourdoLady, I'd like to try your "Deluxe "recipe but I have a few questions first.
1. Have you ever converted it to weights?
2. If not, then what consistancy is your starter, and how much volume does the 1 1/4 cups of starter take up before it has proofed?
3. Do you 'scoop and level', or 'fluff, spoon into and level' your flour?
4. Do you keep the dough at about 80F during the 45 min rest, and does it rise at all during that time or is it just a rest?
So far all of the sourdough recipes I've tried have been quite rustic and I'd like to try this one which looks like it is more a sandwich type, and I'll go for a same day bake.
Thanks for any tips
L_M
L_M, re: Sourdough Deluxe
1. No, I have never converted the recipe to weights. I don't know why, but I prefer to work with cups. I think it is because I have done it that way for so many years. I have a scale and I have done test recipes for Peter Reinhart using weights. I should just force myself to do it more and I'd get used to it, I guess.
2. My starter is the consistency of thick pancake batter. I am bad and I don't measure anything or weigh when I feed it. I just dump in water and flour until it looks about right to me. I measure the starter after it has proofed. I stir it down and then pour into a measuring cup.
3. I measure my flour by fluffing it up a bit in the cannister and then lightly spooning it into my measuring cup. I then level it off with a knife blade.
4. I keep my dough at whatever temperature my house is at the time for the autolyse. In the winter it is usually about 65 degrees and in the warmer months it varies a lot because I don't have air conditioning. No, it doesn't rise at all during that time, so it is just a rest.
Good luck with your bread--hope you like it as much as I do. It is a good sandwich bread and keeps well.
All clear now
SourdoLady,
Thanks for answering my questions - that makes everything much clearer now - especially the part about the starter, because I thought you meant 1 1/4 cups of starter that was all puffed up, not stirred down!
I'll try it in a day or two and let you know how it went.
L_M
Flat bread
SourdoLady, I was hoping to have better results to report to you but... I made it twice and got pretty well the same results both times. Flat bread that was too sour :-((
I only used water with no Powd. milk or lemon juice (for fear of it adding to the sourness) and cut the sugar down quite a lot. That way it resembled a yeasted sandwich type bread that I make quite often so the dough texture was familiar. After it was shaped into a free form batard and set to rest on parchment paper it just started to grow out, out, and out some more! It took about 6 hours at around 73F - 76F for the proof and was very messy to slash - lots of pulling and dragging and in the end it look like a flat ciabatta.
I know that many others have had much more luck with this recipe so I'm sure I'll go back to it sometime and try again.
L_M
Re: Flat bread
Sorry it didn't work out for you, L_M. I've never had any trouble like that with that recipe. Sounds like maybe some more dough folds to strengthen the dough might help. Was the dough mixed by hand, mixer, or breadmachine? If done by mixer or machine, over-development of the gluten could also cause the dough to be soft and slack with poor rise. Just some ideas --that may not be it at all.
Probably not over mixed
Hi SourdoLady,
Not really sure what happened with those 2 breads but I did knead them both in the mixer, mainly because I thought it would be easier to make sure the butter was well mixed in. The first time I thought that maybe I had over mixed, so the second time I shortened the time to only a few minutes and I also added a bit more flour. Both times the dough was less developed than I would have wanted for a yeast dough, so I tend to think that wasn't the problem. Maybe more folds could have helped though...
Does the 6 hours sound right for a proofing at room temperature? I didn't think it was supposed to take that long, which leads me back to the thought that maybe my starter wasn't in good enough shape. Oh well, maybe next time....
L_M
lemon juice?
Hi SourdoLady,
I'm curious what function the lemon juice has in the recipe. I sometimes add a bit of Vit C to whole wheat bread to help boost the rise, but hadn't thought of adding it to white flour.
Re: lemon juice
When I originally developed this recipe I used a bread machine recipe that I liked and tweaked it a bit. That recipe called for the lemon juice and it was described as a dough enhancer. I have made this recipe without the juice and it still comes out fine, so I'm not sure if it is really necessary since sourdough is acidic on its own. It does seem to rise higher and stronger with the juice, though. Maybe just coincidence?
Maybe not a coincidence with the lemon juice
I remember that Vit. C is supposed to be a dough conditioner, maybe it's something besides the acidity. Or maybe it just likes having an extra teaspoon of liquid?? At any rate, it's worth keeping in if it makes a nicer loaf.
Lemon juice
KipperCat, it's a tablespoon of lemon juice--not a teaspoon!
Oops! I hope I read
Oops!
I hope I read better when I make the recipe!
Potato flakes
Sourdoughlady, I would like to try your recipe but wonder if I could substitute cooked potato for the flakes. If so, how much would you recommend using? Or do you think that would significantly change your recipe and not come out as you have designed?
Re: potato flakes
I had the same thought recently and I tried it. The bread turned out okay, but definitely not as nice and fluffy as it does with the dried flakes. The bread as a whole seemed drier. Maybe my hydration was just off that day. I only tried it the one time. I just used one small potato. I cooked it in the microwave and scraped it out of its skin with a fork and broke it up. Spooned into a measuring cup without packing it was about 1/2 cup. Maybe I should have used more? I'm thinking a boiled potato might be more moist. Try it if you want and let me know how it works.
Flakes
Thanks, Sourdolady, I think it sounds like I should do it by your recipe using the flakes the first time at least. That way I know the correct texture. Then maybe I can boldly go into the boiled potato version. :o) I'll let you know.
Potato flakes
I've used the flakes for years. I think substituting real potato might change the hydration since the flakes would absorb more liquid than the potato.
??
Bettie
Midnight bread
Sourdough deluxe
SourdoLady please tell me what you think of it. It doesn't seem to be as light and fluffy as I had expected. The crumb doesn't really look like a sandwich bread does it?I baked it last night and it really did come out of the oven at midnight, so I only tasted it this morning, and I must say that it has a stong sourdough taste. It smelled wonderful last night so maybe the sour aroma and taste developed overnight - I don't know.
The dough was 78F after kneading and during the bulk fermentaion and proofing it was at room temp - between 77F - 81F. I let it proof free form which took 5 1/2 hours (I could have waited another 1/2 hr or so but it was late) and then sprung up nicely in the oven. How long does yours take to proof at room temp?
The only other option I can think of is to try it with my firm starter to see if it produces a different timing, taste, and crumb.
Sorry I can't tell you it was wonderful, but maybe next time :-)
L_M
Re: Midnight Bread
L_M, it doesn't look bad but it does look a bit heavy. Mine never tastes very sour, either. I went back and re-read the recipe since I typed it out a long time ago and there are a few things that I do differently now from when I posted it. I now use 2 cups AP unbleached flour, 1 1/2 cups bread flour and 1/2 cup white whole wheat flour. The use of AP flour makes a more tender crumb. I also use oil instead of butter and honey instead of sugar, but I really don't think either of those changes would make much difference in the outcome of the bread.
Another thing I have been doing is after the 45 minute rest and folding, I refrigerate the dough unshaped, just in a covered bowl. The next morning when I take it out I dump it out on a sprayed plastic cutting mat (this works great--no sticking and no flour needed). I press it out into a flat oval to degas and then cover it with plastic to let it warm up for maybe an hour or more. At this time I fold the dough again, let it rest a few minutes, divide and shape. The final rise usually takes 2 to 3 hours, depending on the dough temp and room temp.
I bake it hotter now than the recipe states--450 for the first 10 minutes and then 375 for the duration. Splitting the recipe into two oval batards, I bake 35 to 40 minutes on a preheated stone.
That's pretty much exactly how I am doing the bread these days. It is interesting to note how fluffy Mariana's trial of this recipe looks in her picture, isn't it? I think hers looks even fluffier than mine ever does.
One other note--how ripe is your starter when you are mixing up the dough? I usually start with no more than 1/4 cup of starter the night before I want to mix the dough and I feed it enough to make about 2 cups starter, which by morning is still quite active; then I mix the dough.
Updated version
SourdoLady, thanks for the tips on your updated version. It is a big mystery to me why mine doesn't come out like yours or Mariana's.
The starter (100% hydration) had risen almost to it's highest when I started making the dough. I know that yours is more liquid so I did add more water to my dough, but maybe I used the wrong amount of starter. I'm used to weighing everything so possibly I miscalculated - I checked in the KA Baking Companion, for conversion and 1 1/4 cups starter comes out to 10 oz, so that's what I used.
In a few days I'll be leaving on a trip for over a week, and I won't have time to try it again before I go, so it'll have to wait until I get back, and I'll let you know how it comes out.
L_M
L_M
Add the salt as late as you can in the kneading process, or add half the salt after the autolyse and the rest at the very end of kneading. Let me know how that works for you. Good luck!
Susan from San Diego
Susan thank you
For that suggestion. I'll try it out within the next few days. Somehow I think it's going to take more than that to solve whatever problem I'm having, but I'm grateful and certainly willing to try any new ideas. At the moment I'm in the midst of some experiments adding different amounts of diastatic malt to the flour, hoping to make some sort of discovery that will speed up the final proof.
L_M
Sourdolady – Excellent recipe!
I baked your deluxe sourdough and let me tell you, it is delicious! Also, it really makes two very nice sized hand formed loaves. Each weighed 670g when formed and about 595g after baking.
I’m not certain what the crumb is supposed to look like but it is really a lovely, creamy, soft but distinctly sourdough crumb. I might add that my husband said it was so “smooth” when he took his first bite.
And is very mild and flavorful bread, not at all acidic despite the fact I retarded the dough overnight and due to a fairly cool kitchen today I had a longer proof than expected.
I followed your recipe exactly except for adding just about a quarter cup more water. I used Wheat Montana, Prairie Gold white whole wheat for that portion of the ingredients (1/2 cup), and that flour just seems to want the water. I would have even added more but didn’t want to stray the first time too far from your recipe. I did see your post on the changes you have made recently to using oil and honey and some AP with the bread flour so that was good.
It is a slow riser so I just let it sit out for a couple hours and then put it into the fridge. This morning I took it out and let it warm up and finish rising in bulk which took about 3 hours. (I had it on the shelf of my refrigerator that is consistently 40°F, btw.) Then I divided, shaped and dusted with flour and covered with plastic wrap and a tea towel over that. I still have trouble knowing when my proof is done but I let it proof about 3 hours and 15 minutes. I steamed as usual and baked at 450°F for 15 minutes, then reduced the heat to 400 for 20 more minutes. They did get very brown but I like my loaves baked that way and they turned out so well, I think. It is a beautiful dough and, again, a very tasty bread that I will happily make again. I’m so glad I finally tried this.
http://zolablue.smugmug.com/gallery/3656272#208732405
Lovely bread, Zolablue!
It looks like it turned out just perfect! I'm honored that you liked it so much. Yours looks pretty much just like mine does except that I don't bake mine quite as dark (I turn the oven to 375 for the final part of the bake). Did you mix by hand, mixer, or bread machine? I also use Prarie Gold from Wheat Montana, and my bread flour is their Unbleached All-purpose. It always gives me good results.
I wish that we could figure out why the recipe is not turning out well for L_M. That can be so frustrating. It's probably some simple little thing, but who knows?
Mixer
I just bought a new DLX mixer and I love it! I am just enjoying that I no longer have to stand and hold the pin in on my KA and hold the top while it is shaking and stopping over and over to remove dough that has crawled up the dough hook!
About the color of my bread, I do think the photo makes it look a bit darker than it really was although I agree it would be much better to turn the oven down to 375. I keep forgetting what honey does to bread while it is baking. So maybe just a bit lighter than this would be better but honestly this tasted great. We had it toasted for dinner that night with creamed eggs on top. It was so yummy.
Last night I made soup and even though I had a wonderful pain de campagne my husband wanted this bread to go with our split pea. I had to try both. (chuckle) I really sincerely enjoy this bread and it sure is keeping fresh.
I didn't realize you also use Prairie Gold! That's cool. I have used that flour only a few times and am enjoying experimenting with it. I noticed it gives such a pretty golden hue to that bread. I noticed that when I had a cut piece of this bread next to the pain de campagne.
Oh, one thing about that Wheat Montana white flour, I'm a little confused about it. I have just found that our local market now carries Wheat Montana (thank goodness) so I just bought a bag of their "all purpose" however on their site they call it "Natural White." They also say it is very strong flour so I emailed them and got a reply that it is 14% protein level which is quite a bit higher than the KA bread flour I use at 12.7%. So I wonder why they are calling it all purpose. Do you notice how it compares to your AP and bread flours? I've only used it once.
My first Deluxe Sourdough effort
My starter must be really happy, because my loaves rose quite high with good oven spring! Taste is perfectly sour, nice light but chewy texture, and a chewy crust (I like a crunchy crust, but my family likes it softer...now we have a compromise!) Check out pix here as I can't seem to get my pix to post onto TFL: http://bikebookandbread.blogspot.com/2008/09/deluxe-sourdough.html
Thanks for the recipe. Boy, am I jealous that you get to use Wheat Montana flour. I used to buy online, but now they're started requiring a $50 minimum purchase, and the shipping on 100 pounds of flour is just CRAZY!
For all of you North Dakotans out there, when I lived in Almost Canada, ND, I could buy "Dakota Maid" flour from North Dakota grown wheat. It gave great results, too, and was a good compromise from Wheat Montana. I remember one time I picked up a bag of Dakota at the grocery store, and the stamped grind date was 7 days before.
Stephanie in Very Hot Almost Mexico
Visit my blog: http://bikebookandbread.blogspot.com/
Kneading
Hi Sourdough lady, I love you recipe but I have some questions:
1- when you say:"Knead dough until it is smooth and satiny" do you do the windowpane testing? or just fold the ingredients together?
2- Do you mix the 3 and 3/4 cups of flour at the same time or just add enough and then when kneading add the rest of it?
I tried the recipe today but I did not have the same results as you did, the flavor however was amazing....thanks!
barley
I am allowed to eat only barley. Can i make a starter out of barley?
Thanks
Beer as the liquid
I feel rather silly asking this one, but if I don't ask i will never learn.
Wouldn't beer be an ideal liquid for the starter?
Thanks
Sourdough Lady, do you find
Sourdough Lady, do you find in general that you will get more sour "twang" using less starter?(obviously it may take longer to proof)
My second question is: does an overnight cold retadation, increase that same SD Twang as compared to say the same recipe that is baked the same day ?
Thanks for your help.
Paul.
Good bread--my family really liked it.
I followed your instructions to the letter. The dough was pretty sticky, so I tried out Richard Bertinet's agressive kneading style, and it worked well. Accidentally collapsed my boules when moving them to the peel, but they had one heck of an oven boost. The result was a light loaf with a fairly open crumb and a tender yet chewy crust.
I just wanted to ask you about the contributions made by the enrichments. I am assuming that the butter is responsible for the tender crust and a significant contribution to the flavor, but what about the others?
Thanx a million.