The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

My assumptions have outlived their uselessness

Frequent Flyer's picture
Frequent Flyer

My assumptions have outlived their uselessness

Marshall McLuhan was right about assumptions.  

I "assumed" French baguettes would on average resemble the open-crumb holey conconctions I see here on the board.   I have certainly tried to make holey bread since finding this place - with some success.

When a friend recently travelled to Paris, I asked him to photograph typical baguettes there.  He did and was I surprised.  Once the surprise wore off, I read some posts here by Flo and Jane who live in France and found they comment often that much of the bread produced in French bakeries aren't what they like to eat.  So, they make their own.

This specimen was from a brasserie pretty much in the heart of Paris.  It looks tasty especially with the Camembert but the crumb is closed and rather fluffy-looking.  Considering the fame of many bakeries there, I'll bet this is not that typical.  ... or is it? 

FF  

Crider's picture
Crider

I'm not surprised, I guess. Just about everything is being made by machine or pre-fab these days -- even in Paris! 

Kollin's picture
Kollin

Let me quote a friend (frenchman) that lives in southern France :

"Paris is not France! "

proth5's picture
proth5

The baguette has a rather checkered history - even in France.  It is in France, of course, that the intensive mix  (the source of the fluffy crumb) was "discovered."  For some time bakers found it desireable to make these intensly white fluffy bread sticks.

This is changing, but not everywhere.  My school memories from France include fluffy white bread in the morning fed five or six at a time through a slicing machine we called "the baguette-o-matic".  More recent forays in the South of France uncovered the same nasty bread.

However, recently (and I continue to claim in no small part to Craig Ponsford's stunning win at the Coupe du Monde) the goal of artisan bakers in France has become more elevated.  I have met a few that really strive for a a better - more open crumbed - more flavorful baguette.  Certainly the French winners of the last Coupe produced something that resembled the mess pictured above in name only.

On a philosopic bent, although I love both France and the French, those who have spent only short periods of time there tend to idolize their bread just a bit too much.  There is plenty of bad bread to be had in that country - just as there is in the USA and probably every other developed nation.  I think our goal as passionate home bakers - or even budding profesional artisan bakers - is to keep our own standards high and to elevate expectations. Although there are pockets of long standing bread traditions in coastal cities - the USA is a big darned country and a lot of it just gets written off as "white bread" country - where good bread is never made.  Yet this is the very area is where the world's finest wheat is grown.  Maybe we all need to step up and say "We've got the ingredients, we've got the skills, and people should just expect better!"

OK - got that out of my system....

Happy Baking!

 

lumos's picture
lumos

I've only visted Paris and a few other cities in France a handful of times, so I can't claim I'm an expert on French bread scene, but I've come across really good bread, whether it's baguette or other types, only a few times. But when it's good, it's seriously good, I must say.

A couple of my French friends've told me daily breads a large majority of French people eat are not necessarily of good standard, often far from it.  One of them said she was mostly brought up on factory-made fluffy white bread when she was growing up there. She admits she still like her breads soft like those, rather than chewy bread with bites like sourdough, which many of us here at TFL prefer.

Though I must add a couple of other French friends of mine always come back with gorgeous loaves whenever they go there on holiday to see their families. (one in Paris, the other just outside Paris).  They both say they buy those from the local boulangerie near their  families's homes.  So obviously, you have to know exactly where to get good ones, even in France.

lumos

fminparis's picture
fminparis

Having visited France and Paris at least once a year for 30 years, and having a Website on Paris, I can say I've tasted a heck of a lot of baguettes. The quality now in general is definitely not nearly as good as it used to be many years ago. You can still find some really great baguettes but the search is not easy and changes regularly.  One reason is the outlawing of wood burning ovens which had been used for hundreds of years; too much pollution.  Also, kids do not want to go into that business anymore and as the older boulangers retire, there aren't that many who know the process of producing those great baguettes. Thin crackly crust, delicious chew. People are certainly still eating them.  Walk around the city and you'll constantly see  people walking holding one or several baguettes, generally with the end of at least one missing.  Who can resist that bite on the way home?

Graid's picture
Graid

I have been to France on two occasions, visiting Strasbourg, Bayeux and Rouen. If we had judged French bread solely on what was available in Strasbourg and Rouen we would have judged it as in no way living up to the hype. The bread there was lacklustre and boring. 

 

But in Bayeux, and the village of Ouistram nearby, the bread was damned delicious! Baguettes and ordinary loaves are certainly different from the sort of artisan bread that you aspire to, though.  I associate 'artisan bread' in the UK with tough crusted, sort of heavy and full loaves, with holey, chewy textures. I can't honestly remember if we had any bread like that in Bayeux, I think we did, but it was of the more wholegrain variety.

 

In Bayeux, fluffy and light interiors with a hard crust are the typical way of making baguettes and white loaves. I wouldn't say the fluffiness was all that 'close' in texture- not like in the picture, it was more open.  Their crispness is what really stands out from bread I've had elsewhere, and the contrast of that with soft, almost feathery insides (in so far as you can describe food as feathery without being offputting).  I wish now that I'd taken pictures! I took pictures of everything in Bayeux BUT the bread. Next time I go to France I shall certainly keep an eye on the bread and hope I'm not somewhere with awful bread. 

 

 

Frequent Flyer's picture
Frequent Flyer

I am actually relieved somewhat to know that not all breads made in France match my idea of perfection. 

FF  

BettyR's picture
BettyR

you can get the open (big holes) crumb you are looking for with the "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" if you handle it very carefully when you are taking some dough out of the bin to shape it.

I use the 6-3-3-13 formula and keep it in my frig almost all the time. When I am refilling my bin I wash it, mix the warm water and salt together, then add the yeast. When it is dissolved then add the flour until everything is well mixed. Then let it sit out on the counter at room temperature for 4 hours punching the dough down once every hour. After the last hour is up thoroughly deflate the dough, cover it and place it in the frig....it will need to sit at least overnight.

As it sits it will form these nice large bubbles that when you take some dough out to shape it if you are very careful not to work the dough very much, just quickly "cloak" the dough and put it down, it will keep all those lovely large bubbles.

I put mine on parchment paper on a small board and when I go to cook it I carry it to the oven on the board then pick it up with the edges of the parchment paper and drop the whole thing, paper and all into a preheated cast iron pot and place the lid on. I cook it in at 475 degrees for 30 minutes then remove the lid and cook another 15 minutes to get good color.