The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

yeasty, not rising

dolcebaker's picture

yeasty, not rising

I have just rented space in a rental kitchen so I can sell at farmers markets, and I ran through some things to see how long it really takes to get stuff done.&nbsp; I made a batch of Challah, Italian &amp; Gibassier.&nbsp; The challah and gibassier I mixed up on Thursday and&nbsp;I let raise overnight before shaping on Friday; but the Italian I mixed up Friday (biga was done Thurs). The mixer does not have a dough hook (30 qt) so I tried with the paddle.&nbsp; The dough seemed to look ok, but I wasn't really sure about the timing with the paddle vs a dough hook.&nbsp; The gibassier I made a very small batch and used a household&nbsp;kitchen aid mixer (dough hook), did the window test for mixing and then bulk rise overnight with the challah.</p><p>The room is commercial so it is kept cool, good for overnite raising, the dough didn't seem to have fallen (over rise) so I shaped the challah for next rise, gibassier same thing. Part of the kitchen area is for storage of packaging material, and not airconditioned like the work area. It was warm, I didn't think overly warm, so I set the bread out there for a fairly quick&nbsp;rise.&nbsp; Well, it was slower than molasses. I finally cooked the gibassier because they looked like they were ok, but I found them a little yeasty. The challah rose a little, now this is after several hours, but not to the point at which I would bake it.&nbsp; My Italian bulk dough, never seemed to rise, or very little over a 3 hour timespan.</p><p>Question: what could be the problem? Old yeast?&nbsp; Not enough yeast?&nbsp; Too hot for rising? (fig it was about 85, maybe more) and then the faint yeasty flavor?&nbsp; How do you guage mixing with a paddle vs dough hook?&nbsp; (I had to put it on 3rd speed&nbsp;to get the cleanup stage).&nbsp; I want to do large batches, hand mixing not an option. I have used the formulas before. </p>

flournwater's picture

Not sure if it helps but the room temperature isn't the only factor for the rise.  It's the dough temperature, as it is supported by room temperature, that makes the difference.  If you've done a ferment in a cold environment your dough has cooled throughout and it will take longer for the mass the reach a balanced temperature that supports a rise.  When dough temperatures are maintained at a relatively constant level the rise tends to be linear with respect to time.  When the temperature varies too much the linearity of the rise is adversely affected.

You offer a lot of detail but without knowing your forumula there's really no way to assess how the primary elements might be affecting your final product.

dolcebaker's picture

This is a good formula, I have used it many times:



Flour, Bread       691 g

Water                   411 g

Inst Yeast            47 g                       Rest for  30 -60 mins


Bread Fl                2074 g

Sugar                       312 g

Salt                            59 g

Honey                   167 g

Water                     108 g

Whole Eggs         629 g

Egg Yolks              173 g

Oil                             256 g

Sponge                 1220                                       Final Weight:  4998g

1.       Mix all ingredients on 1st speed in a mixer or 4 min

2.       Mix an add’l 8 mins on 2nd speed

3.       Bench rest for 1 ¼ hrs on lightly oiled bin

4.       Divide dough into 170g units for three braids and 114g for six braids

5.       Shape into rounds and allow to rest for 20 mins

6.       Roll the rounds into 12-18” logs with the center thicker than the ends

7.       Braid the three rolled out logs together to form a braid that is thicker in the middle and tapered on both ends.

8.       Place 3 braids on parchment lined sheet pans and egg wash

9.       Place in proof box 60-75 mins

10.   Brush with egg wash, sprinkle with either poppy or sesame seed if desired, bake in convection oven for 35 min at 320F


flournwater's picture

Your complete formula calls for 1220 grams of sponge.  Your sponge formula provides only 1149 grams.  Where does the other 71 grams of sponge come from?