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Submitted by SourdoLady on May 30, 2005 - 7:00pm. Wild Yeast Sourdough StarterI have been baking with wild yeast sourdough for the past 5 years. It all began when I purchased a starter from Sourdoughs International. One starter led to another starter, until I had 5 different ones. Recently, I felt up to the challenge of making my own wild yeast starter from scratch. I had tried this once before, many years ago, with no success at all. At that time I knew next to nothing about wild yeast and how it works. This starter recipe is awesome because it really works, and it explains why it works. The starter I made is very good. The flavor is amazing and it rises very well. I purchased rye and wheat berries at my local health food store and ground them in a coffee grinder to make flour for my starter. It was kind of tedious to grind but I only needed a few tablespoons. I'm sure that you could just buy freshly milled flour at the health food store and it would work just as well. The wild yeast is on the grains and you just need to provide the right conditons to wake it up. Procedure for Making Sourdough Starter Day 1: mix... Day 2: add... Day 3: add... Starter at Day 3: Day 4: *You can feed the starter whatever type of flour you want at this point (unbleached white, whole wheat, rye). If you are new to sourdough, a white starter is probably the best choice. All-purpose flour is fine--a high protein flour is not necessary. Repeat Day 4: Starter at Day 7: How it Works The yeast we are trying to cultivate will only become active when the environment is right. When you mix flour and water together, you end up with a mixture that is close to neutral in pH, and our yeasties need it a bit more on the acid side. This is why we are using the acidic fruit juice. There are other microbes in the flour that prefer a more neutral pH, and so they are the first to wake up and grow. Some will produce acids as by-products. That helps to lower the pH to the point that they can no longer grow, until the environment is just right for wild yeast to activate. The length of time it takes for this to happen varies. When using just flour and water, many will grow a gas-producing bacteria that slows down the process. It can raise the starter to three times its volume in a relatively short time. Don't worry--it is harmless. It is a bacteria sometimes used in other food fermentations like cheeses, and it is in the environment, including wheat fields and flours. It does not grow at a low pH, and the fruit juices keep the pH low enough to by-pass it. Things will still progress, but this is the point at which people get frustrated and quit, because the gassy bacteria stop growing. It will appear that the "yeast" died on you, when in fact, you haven't begun to grow yeast yet. When the pH drops below 3.5--4 or so, the yeast will activate, begin to grow, and the starter will expand again. You just need to keep it fed and cared for until then. Once your wild yeast is growing, the character and flavor will improve if you continue to give it daily feedings and keep it at room temperature for a couple of weeks longer. My First Loaves From New Starter:
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Your pineapple starter
SourdoLady,
I recently made this starter from directions given to me by another baker and was amazed to get a very active whole wheat starter using pineapple juice poured and strained off a can of pineapple chunks. It took several days for the starter to get going and I was getting impatient with it. But it did jump to life on about the fourth day and I was thrilled! I never would have thought to mix whole wheat flour and pineapple juice together to make a starter.
Thank you, SourdoLady!
Teresa
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Re: Pineapple juice starter
Thank you, Teresa, for your nice comments. I am passionate about sourdough and I really love to help people learn how to make and use their starters. The pineapple juice makes the starter just about foolproof as it eliminates the possibility of mold growing and ruining it before the yeast gets going. The other factor I can't stress enough is, make sure your whole grain flour is REALLY fresh for the best results.
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Sourdolady, very
Sourdolady, very interesting starter method and excellent explanation! I also believe that the yeasts etc we want are on the grain rather than just floating about in the ether. There are lots of things in the air - mould for a start - but I want those kept OUT of my starter, not included in it!
I've seen a starter recipe very similar to yours, but using live yogurt with water to lower the pH level. It also introduces some lactobacillus which assists the sour flavour later in the bread process. Mine was just water and rye - and as you say, it looked very perky by day two, then went dormant for almost a week before the yeasts got going well and it really developed. Excellent starter though, made last May, and it seems to just get better and better.
Andrew
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My First Successful Starter
Well Sourdolady, after four or five abortive attempts over the years I've finally got a lovely sweet-smelling yeasty starter - your starter recipe worked first time (oh, by the way, I incorporated Floyd's tip about using raisin-water) so many thanks. Bread in the next few days I hope . . .
Bernie
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Re: Successful Starter
Congratulations, Bernie, on your new starter! I'm glad it is working well for you. When you start baking just remember to be patient. Sourdough takes longer to rise than commercial yeast. Don't rush it. Have fun and good luck!
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Question about Starter
Hello,
I'm very new to sourdough starters and have a question. I've tried to make the wild one above with your measurements, but 2 tablespoons rye and two tablespoons juice creates a thick paste. I assume it should look more 'liquidy' like in your photo, but mine is just a thick paste which invites mold. I feel I should add a bit more juice, but don't want to destroy anything. Why equal ratios?
Thanks so much,
Mahlon
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Re: Starter question
Yes, you can use more juice if needed. When I made mine I used half rye and half whole wheat flour and mine was not thick and pasty. Different flours will absorb different amounts of liquid. Rye especially absorbs more moisture. The mixture should resemble a thick batter.
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starter
Once the yeasts start going, it will appear more liquidy and be more liquid. You can manipulate the flour/water ratio, but I tend to use a little more flour than water, as I find the starter maintains itself better in the fridge - in the summer I don't bake as often, so I am not refreshing the starter very often. It should not be getting moldy. Be sure that the dish you are using and utensil you are stirring with are meticulously clean.
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no juice starter
Just to reiterate that there isn't really a pressing need for juice - just flour (rye for choice) and water will make an excellent starter, using sourdo ladies method as above. Rye isn't required after about the 3rd feed, unless you want to make a specifically rye starter.
The bacteria which make the bubbles by about day 2 or 3 will lower the pH perfectly well and then the it will go dead looking. If you continue to feed though, it will come back by day 6 or 7 and then it is the yeasts you need for bread. I'm quite sure the sourdours produced over the past 6000 years or so in Europe and the middle east didn't use pineapple juice or anything other than water! The bacteria and yeasts needed are present in the flour - especially rye to start it off.
happy baking!
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Re: no juice starter
> I'm quite sure the sourdours produced over
> the past 6000 years or so in Europe and the
> middle east didn't use pineapple juice or
> anything other than water!
Interestingly enough that might not be the case. King Arthur Flour is doing some research on bacteria which indicates that a non-sour bacteria might be growing more common [no pun intended] on flours, even organic flours. This bacteria crowds out the sour-forming bacteria and prevents a true sour culture from developing. This work is preliminary and I have only seen references in forum posts, but their testers are recommending that if you can't grow a sour culture with plain water you should try using an acidic juice for the starter and first feeding to create a better environment for the sour-forming bacteria.
sPh
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less sour sourdough
Of course, we have no way of knowing how sour, or otherwise, cultures from tens, hundreds or even thousands of years ago were.... perhaps a better terminology would be naturally leavened bread?
It is quite possible that lots of naturally leavened breads, using a starter which could have been kept going for generations, produced breads which were well flavoured, well rising, but not at all sour.
And of course, the starters could have been originally made using plain water, or pomegranate juice, apple juice, grape etc, or even yoghurt - many variables which would have produced a vigorous and viable starter.
Perhaps it is our present fondness for a sour taste which is out of kilter??!
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thicker starter
I agree with Dulke - a thicker starter keeps better in the fridge. It can go WEEKS without feeding, then when you refresh, it's ready for baking after 2cnd feed. I use quite a lot more flour than water- typically 30 grams starter, 30 grams water and 50 grams flour, which makes quite a thick paste, but it slackens off after a couple of hours as it begins to ferment, at which stage I put it back into the fridge.
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What now?
I used this recipe for starter using freshly milled hard white flour and fresh squeezed o.j. I am currently on day 8 and it is bubbly and yeasty. But I need the actual bread recipe. I will be using freshly milled flour and will adjust the recipe to accomodate that unless you already have one using freshly milled flour. I'm so excited to have an active starter on my first atempt. Thanks for the help. freshmilled
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Mold?
I'm making my very first starter using the flour and pineapple juice method. Today (Day 4) everything looks absolutely perfect, except at the top of the bowl near the saran wrap, there was a little dough residue stuck to the side of the bowl that now has mold spores on it. Does this mean I have to throw the whole batch out? The main dough itself doesn't show any signs of mold so I'm wondering if I can wipe off the sides of the bowl and keep it going.
Thank you!
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Re: Mold
Don't worry about the mold. Just scrape it off and clean the bowl. It will be fine. Good luck with the starter! How is it going? It should be getting active by now, since it has been several days since your post.
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No froth
I'm currently on Day 3 of your recipe and there still aren't any bubbles. It does smell deeply of alcohol though (which indicates to me that there is yeast in there). I'm using Bob's Red Mill Dark Organic Rye Flour and Dole Pineapple juice. Am I doing something wrong, or should I just be patient?
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Be patient! Day 3 is much
Be patient! Day 3 is much too early to start worrying. It generally takes an average of 7 to 8 days to get it going good. It will probably start bubbling and then it will appear to be dead for a day or two and then it will start to bubble again. The first bubbles are not the yeast growing, but just bacteria. Keep us posted on how it goes!
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Day 5,6,7 = Day 4
Hi SourDoLady.
I am in day 5 so I am discarding all but 1/4 cup and adding 1/4 cup flour and 1/4 cup water repeating this for day 6 and day 7. (making 3/4 cup) Then how do I get to 1 1/4 cups of starter for the recipe and still leave enough to keep starter going. Do I add 1 cup flour and 1 cup water on day 8? Sorry for probably a lame question but this is my first starter.
To do it right, do it yourself.
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Have patience
Everybody has a different experience with getting a starter up and running, but slow starts seem to be pretty common. It always feels longer, too, when you want it to be ready right now. So, hang in there. Yours will bubble and froth, when it feels like it. ;-)
Just look at it as a practice round for the long, slow ferments you'll be doing with your sourdough breads.
Good luck and happy baking!
PMcCool
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Success
So on Day 4 the starter sprang to life and I was able to build up enough starter to bake a few loaves today. I used Reinhart's standard sourdough recipe from BBA. The crust browned nicely and the crumb was slightly open, and airey. The flavor was exceptional! It was both creamy and pleasently sour.
So thanks, SourdoLady, for this starter recipe. I was close to abandoning sourdough, as I hadn't had any luck with various other starter recipes.
Loaf 1:
Loaf 2:
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It works in italy too!!
This is my first sourdough loaf. To me it looks great and it tastes even better.
Thanks for the starter recipe SourdoLady. I'll keep trying!
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It's alive! It's alive! Now what?
Hi, all.
I followed the above recipe for a starter, and, much to my surprise, I have one. In a one quart mason jar, I have about a cup (or a half a cup if you knock all the gas out of it) of whole wheat starter that I am still developing with daily feedings; saving out a quarter cup, cleaning the jar, replacing the reserved quarter cup, and feeding it with a quarter cup of bottled water, and a quarter cup of whole wheat flour. It is about 8 days old and I would like to bake with it this Sunday, in about two days.
.
Should I increase the amounts of water and flour for the feedings, and, if so, by how much, to get a greater amount to work with, or will the quarter cup left after I reserve and feed be adequate?
.
What I have read on this site suggests that the quarter cup should be good enough, if you do not mind long ferments/proofings, which are supposed to be good for flavor development in low sugar, or sugarless, breads. The recipe I'm using is just water, yeast (or starter, in this case), flour, and salt. I have no problem letting things take their sweet time in the risings.
Thanks,
Ray
Somewhere under the clouds,
Nahiku, Hana, Maui
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Sourdough Successes
Great looking loaves of bread, you guys! Keep up the good baking.
Ray, you can feed the starter as much as you want in order to increase the quantity for your recipe. You can also adjust the amount of flour to water to get the consistency of starter that you prefer. Keep in mind that when you use a recipe the original baker's starter may have been either wetter or thicker than yours so adjustments are often necessary. It is always better to err on the side of wetter dough as too much flour makes for tough bread.
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Great Starter Recipe
Hi SourdoLady,
A few weeks ago I decided to learn about making sourdough bread. I located your starter procedure after doing a Google Search. I was able to find a box of whole grain, stone ground rye flour at Wal-mart, oddly enough, made by Hodgson Mills and I already had some small cans of pineapple juice on hand so I gave it a try. It worked perfectly! Before I went to sleep at the end of Day 2 there were one or two little bubbles and I thought it would probably take a while, but when I woke up the morning of Day 3 the level had doubled in volume, was FULL of foamy bubbles, and smelled heavenly. I'm on Day 4 and will continue working with it.
Now the hard part, learning to make the bread. I'd love to make something like the beautiful loaves at the top of the page that you made with your first attempt at your new starter. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Eric
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Re: New Starter
Congratulations on your new starter, Eric! Sounds like you've got a great start. The recipe I used for my bread is posted on my blog on this site. It is called "Deluxe Sourdough Bread". It is quite simple to make, so give it a go. The only way you are going to learn is to jump in and do it. Every time you bake you will get better at it. It's one of those things that just take practice. While your first loaves may not look perfect, they will still taste good. Remember, sourdough rises slower than commercial yeast, so don't rush it. Good luck!
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How and When?
Sourdolady.
Your post is excellent. Your bread pictures looks good enough to buy it off the web! BUT, I have a question which has been bothersome for a while. I believe floyd answered something to a similar question based on a specific recipe. But now I have 3 general questions.
Question 1: Let's say I have a starter dough. I have a recipe that doesnt call for the starter dough, but for some baker's yeast (instant or active, etc.) What and how do I substitute the starter dough for the yeast? The size is relative to the amount of loaves I need to bake, therefore it is not a set size.
Question 2: How did your loaves turn out this way? I bake mine on a flat pan. Do you use a spray for steam?
Question 3: My risen dough is usually difficult to transfer from the second rising on the sheet that it is on, to the oven in another sheet pan. I find the dough too flaccid and it may loose some of the 'scars' I put. Should the bread rise the second time on the actual baking pan/sheet?
I am positive I'll have questions when I actually start the starter dough itself :) But certainly, you have been phenomenal in explaining thus far. Thanks!
Nazir
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Re: How and When
Hi Nazir,
Thanks for all the kind words. There are several ways to convert to sourdough and I am all for using the simplest way I can find. Here is how I do it:
Converting to Sourdough
The easiest way I have found to adapt a recipe without altering the ingredients too much is to take all of the liquid from the recipe, stir in 2 Tbsp. starter, add the same amount of flour as the liquid. Let this sit, covered, overnight (room temp.) Next day, continue by adding the rest of the ingredients, remembering that you already used the liquid and part of the flour. If your recipe calls for milk rather than water, use water but then stir in some dry milk powder after the overnight proofing is complete and then mix your dough.
Your second question, I'm not sure what you mean when you ask how did I get my loaves to turn out that way. I shape my loaves free-form and then after letting them proof I bake them on a preheated baking stone. You could also bake on a baking sheet if you don't have a stone. Yes, I use spray for steam. I spray Immediately upon loading into oven and once every minute for the first 5 minutes. I also place a pan of hot water on the bottom rack of the oven while preheating the oven and I leave it there for the first 10 or 15 minutes of baking, after which I remove it.
Third question, I place my shaped loaves on parchment paper. Once they are proofed I just pick up the ends of the paper to transfer the loaves to the baking stone. It works better than sliding them for me. Any more questions--just ask!
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keep it going
Remember also to look after the starter! The flavour / activity just get better and better as the months go by - so treat it as an heirloom in the making!
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I've learned so much in the
I've learned so much in the last week wandering this site, and now it's time to ask the dumb question:
I'm on day 4, and everything is going well with whole wheat/pineapple juice starter. I've used a paper towel over a 1qt mason jar to allow breathing and kept it on the fridge.
Question 1: can I put this outside, uncovered in an attempt to capture more wild yeast?
Question 2: When I'm ready to bake...if following directions, I have a 1/4 cup worth of starter. Can you walk me through the point where I just discarded all but 1/4 starter and making the dough for the bread (use your recipe, as an example). I'd assume I'd add more flour and water to make the recipe. Say I add enough flour and water for 2 cups of starter. How long does this need to set for? Overnight? 2 days? At room temperature or in the fridge? Then, once baking, I take out 1 and 1/2 cups starter for the recipe. Do I discard all but 1/4 at the same time and continue with the starter feedings like before?
Question 3: How long can this be left out to develop before going bad? you mention a couple weeks, but is there a time that's too long before being refrigerated?
Thanks for all your help!
Shaun
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Boltzst--Re: starter
Sorry I missed your post in December. How's the starter going? Leaving it out at room temperature for 2 weeks is just to get it established and growing well. During that time you must feed it at least once daily, but every 8 hours is better. Before feeding, dump out all but a very small amount. I would recommend saving only a tablespoon and then feeding it with 2 oz. each of flour and water. At this stage you don't need large volumes of starter. Once it is performing well and you have baked successful loaves of bread with it you can start storing it in the fridge between bakings and feeding once a week or so. You can go much longer between feedings, and especially if you keep your starter thick, but your starter will perform better if you keep it fed frequently.
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Trying since Jan. 10th
Hi,I've been trying to make a starter since Jan. 10th. I started with Bob's Red Mill Organic Med. Rye and orange juice. On the 4th day I poured off all but 1/4 cup and added to that using white flour and water. So far I've had a couple of days of small bubbles (very small) or no action at all. Today I added 1/4 tsp. of cider vinegar as you suggested on another post and 1/4 cup flour and water. It smells winey. Any idea what I can expect? Will it ever bubble up? My kitchen is cool but I keep the starter in the warm corner. Thanks for any suggestions or help. weavershouse
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patience
I've only made and have since maintained one starter in my life, so I can't speak from to much experience but it sounds like it's going fine. It's only been a week. Just keep throwing half out and feeding it with flour and water. I personally don't believe there is any reason to use anything but white flour or vinegar/oj. My feeling is that if it can be done without vinegar or oj, than there is no reason to put them in there at all. But there is a million ways of making/maintaining a starter out there and nearly all of them will work. If your leaving out on at room temperature I think it's best to feed it daily even if it appears to not be doing anything. But if it smells winey like you said, it should be well on it's way. A few more days and it should be ready to store in the frig, if that's what you plan to do with it.
demegrad
http://www.demegrad.blogspot.com
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Patience is a virtue
Patience is a virtue that I think I have with everything except this starter. I stare at it for longer than I care to admit hoping to see some life. Tonight I'm going to pour off half, feed it and be patient. Thanks for the help. weavershouse
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I guess temperature could
I guess temperature could have a big effect at this early stage of starter development. I started mine in this past summer and I started using it after a week but the first two breads I made with it I had to admittedly knead in some instant yeast because it was taking longer than I planned out. But now it's several months later and I couldn't be happier with it. I think wild yeast does better in colder temperatures than instant yeast so it's kind of perfect for baking in the winter. I think since essentially my sourdough starter "lives" in the frig that the yeast that has developed and is especially suited for cooler temperatures, I could be wrong, but your starter will become a good friend and your jar of regular yeast will get pushed to the back of the frig near some old store bought fruitcake someone gave you for christmas.
demegrad
http://www.demegrad.blogspot.com
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Patience paid off
You were right demegrad, a couple of days after my last post the starter was working good. I did throw half out (which kills me to do no matter any explanations given) and I made the starter a little thicker. It worked, I'm happy. I've made bread since and while it's been very good I hope the flavor will improve more with time. Patience again.Thanks. weavershouse
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I'm glad to hear it
I'm right there with you. It kills me to throw out starter but don't worry once the culture is healthy which it sounds like it is you can really choose your own way to do things without ever having to throw any out. You just have to do the whole throwing out thing at the beginning because you want to feed it with enough fresh flour and water to help the yeast grow and this just eventually leads to having to much. I've find I'm keeping less and less starter around and ever once in a while making pancakes or dog treats or something recipe that uses a lot of it. If you have any questions just let me know.
demegrad
http://www.demegrad.blogspot.com
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Starter
This is my first time posting and I have lurked for over a year.
I am on day 5 of the sourdough starter with the pineapple juice and I am not seeing any activity as yet. Since tomorrow is day 6 and a bit of vinegar could be used to step up the process, I am wondering if I can use another type of vinegar instead of the apple cider vinegar. I seem to have every other type of vinegar that is available except the apple cider vinegar.
Help!
Lucy
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Day 5,6,7 = Day 4
Re SourDoLady Starter
I am in day 5 so I am discarding all but 1/4 cup and adding 1/4 cup flour and 1/4 cup water repeating this for day 6 and day 7. (making 3/4 cup) Then how do I get to 1 1/4 cups of starter for the recipe and still leave enough to keep starter going. Do I add 1 cup flour and 1 cup water on day 8? Sorry for probably a lame question but this is my first starter.
To do it right, do it yourself.
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Rick2u, regarding starter
Rick, once the starter is bubbling well and obviously active you can increase the amount you feed it to obtain however much you need for your recipe. In the early stages you would just be wasting flour if you fed that much. Many people like to feed their starters by weight, for instance = 4 oz. flour and 4 oz. water. That would make a starter with 100% hydration. You can feed it as much as you want to in order to make the quantity that you need. Your starter doesn't care if it is thick or thin--it just likes to be fed regularly. Do it how you prefer, but always dump out most of the old starter before feeding. You still have a few more days to go before you will have an active starter so be patient!
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new starter
I started a new starter using your recipe with pineapple juice. I am on my Day 3 and when I went to feed it tonight it had mold on it. I scraped out the starter that looked like it did't have any mold on it and put it in a clean bowl and fed it. Was I right to do this or should I throw it away? I had very few bubbles in it and I'm hoping to see more tomorrow. TerryB
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Re: new starter
You did the right thing. Just keep a good eye on it in case the mold comes back. I am surprised that it molded as the acidity in the pineapple juice usually prevents that from happening. Stir it good several times a day. The day 3 bubbles are usually not the yeast growing, but bacteria. The yeast doesn't kick in until about day 5 to 7, but that depends on the temperature of the room too. Good luck and keep us posted!
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new starter
TerryB The starter is now on day 5 and it is bubbly and slightly risen. It seems to be doing well. Will see in a few days how it is doing. I will let you know. Thanks for the recipe. I have tried others and just could not get them to work. Terry
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Hi Well I just started mine.
Hi
Well I just started mine. But have a question or two.
Qt. What are the daily feedings?
Is it this again and again?
Jim
I enjoy cooking with wine. On occasion I even include it in the recipe.
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I'm confused...Juice or no juice?
SourdoLady,
So are you saying that you shouldn't use a citric juice? I do only water and flour. At first I tried equal amounts, but because of the altitude, I had a bit more water. Just as I have to increase my liquid when I make the dough. I tried adding commercial yeast, but (as S. John said would happen) some "sourdough snobs" pooh-pooh'ed that saying 'NEVER add commercial yeast to your starter.' And that's okay, since I didn't get great results from that either. When I finally got my patience, or lack thereof, under control, it finally performed as desired. After using it, I inadvertantly (I wasn't paying attention at the store) used bleached AP flour. It would double, then die. Some said use it anyway. I did when I made my stromboli. Worked well. I still don't know why the bleached AP died, but oh well. Anyway, I've seen recipes using honey, sugar, commercial yeast, and orange or grapefruit juice. If the acidic juice brings down the pH, isn't that a bad thing?
Steph
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Sadears, re: confused
Steph, the juice is only used in the first few days when you are creating a brand new wild yeast starter. Once the yeast wakes up and starts to grow you should switch to water and continue to use water thereafter. As for the bleached flour, I really can't say much. I only buy unbleached. I have read that the bleaching process can leave residues that are harmful to the yeast, but I am sure that once your starter is well established it wouldn't kill it. Sourdough yeasts thrive at a low pH (3.5 to 4), so NO, the juice isn't a bad thing. After your starter is established it will naturally maintain a low pH all by itself with no juice needed.
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Need good grade
Hi Sourdolady, I'm a Baking student here in Orlando Florida and I actually came across this recipe for your sour dough starter and decided to use it for my class test grade. We are being graded on making and maintaning a sour dough starter and then bringing into class and using a recipe to make a loaf. I would really like to do well and my professor chef mackie wants us to be creative and use a new an interesting recipe with our starters. Well here's my question what recipe goes great with this starter. Something fruity and sweet or what? Please help! I need an A badly!
Thank you & Hope to hear from you soon, Sara
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Re: Need good grade
Hi Sara,
Sorry I didn't see your post before today. How is the starter coming along? If you have a camera, I would suggest you take pictures of the progress to include with your presentation. As far as a recipe to make, I'm not sure. You can make virtually any type of yeast dough recipe with sourdough. Oh, I just had an idea--what about a cinnamon swirl bread? It is a bit more creative than just a plain loaf and looks very impressive. Also, many people when they think of sourdough, think that it is not for sweet breads and they are very surprised that non-sour tasting breads can be made with sourdough. I can provide you with my favorite recipe for cinnamon swirl bread if that sounds like something you might like. Maybe some of the other posters will have some ideas for you also.
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Recipe please
I would really like to try your recipe as well. Just get back to me...thank you! -Sara
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Re: Need good grade
Hi Sara,
In addition to what Sourdolady suggested, I think sourdough may also work well with Naan Bread. I also am in Culinary School and recently finished the baking section - I made the bread and it turned out quite well (I used yeast).
Naan bread can be mixed with coriander, garlic, red pepper flakes, or you can even sprinkle nigella seeds or sesame seeds on top prior to baking. I'll be happy to furnish a recipe that helped me!
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yes please
I am new to this site so I don't know if this is how you reply but I would really like to try your recipe. Thank you for getting back to me. -Sara
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Naan recipe
Hi Sara
Following is the recipe for Naan. Weight is all relative, I prefer the bakers percentage method:
Measurements:
Bread flour: 100%
Water: 42.9%
Olive oil: 14.3%
Plain yogurt: 14.3%
Sugar: 7.2%
Salt: 1.8%
Some olive oil to brush after baking.
Good to know
Preferable topping: Black seeds (kalonji).
Preferable method of baking: Stone, preheated oven to 500 degrees F. Or use a sheet pan. Sheet pan must also be preheated.
Rest:
Ferment: 1 hour or until nearly double
Bench rest: 15-20 minutes
Optional:
Add fresh chopped garlic, or coriander, during the final mixing phase.
Method:
Using 2 tbsp starter, follow SourdoLady's suggestion of combining all the water with equivalent amount of flour the night before.
Mix using straight method about 4 minutes on low speed. Dough should be slightly wet but elastic. Ferment as above.
After fermenting, punch down and divide and preshape into approx 3oz rolls. Let rest again for 15-20 minutes (bench rest).
Then, take each roll starting with the first one you preshaped, and stretch to make a flat bread into a tear-drop shape. Alternatively, you can begin by using a rolling pin to flatten it a bit, then stretch it after you rolled to approx 3-4 inches circle.
Cover the stretched naan's as you continue. By the time you reach the last one, the first Naan should have sufficiently rested again. This time, stretch it slightly, not for shaping as you did before, but to sprinkle some black kalonji seeds, and then release it so it shrinks back to when it was first stretched.
Bake in the oven for about 7-9 minutes or until golden brown and puffed. After removing, brush with olive oil, and you can also sprinkle red pepper flakes here or freshly chopped coriander (if you did not do it before).
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
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Recipes Pleaseeee
Both recipes the cinnamon swirl and the Naan Bread sound great...I doubled this started required by my teacher so I can try making both. Can I please have those recipes...thanks for your help guys!
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Sourdough Starter Day 6
Today is day number 6 for my starter. So far it has not gone flat. The original instructions say:
"It is not unusual for the mixture to get very bubbly around Day 3 or 4 and then go completely flat and appear dead."
As I said, this is day six and it's still quite bubbly, it's never gone flat. It smells nice, tho not exactly 'yeasty'. Is this normal?
Thanks,
HH
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Re: Starter, day 6
Sounds like it is doing great. It doesn't always do the 'going flat' thing, but it is very common. Your flour must have had some good wild yeast in it. Feed it for a couple more days and then try baking with it.
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Day 6
Tomorrow will be day 6 with my starter and I am not seeing much activity so I want to add some vinegar. Do you have to use apple cider vinegar since I have every other type of vinegar that is available except the apple cider vinegar?
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hoerlel, re: starter
Yes, you can use any kind of vinegar. It doesn't take much and you will never taste it.
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Can I leave my starter when it is still a baby?
My starter is performing very nicely as of Day 7. On day 11, I have to go out of town for 5 days. If I give it a good feeding before I leave, will it survive in the fridge until I get back? Should I do anything special to revive it when I return? Thanks.
-Pam
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marleesmom, re: starter
By day 11 your starter should be well established if you keep it at room temp and feed it two or three times a day. It will keep just fine in the fridge. When you feed it for the last time before leaving, add more flour so it is quite thick. Let it sit out for an hour or two before refrigerating. When you come back, just take it out and let it warm up and then discard most of it and feed again. It should bounce right back.
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Questions
I've been following the directions given here for making the wild yeast starter...and trying to be patient. Last night was Day 11, and the starter had lots of bubbles in it, and had risen (at one point) a little bit (maybe 1/8 inch) above the mark I put on the side of the container. This is the first time I noticed any rising. It also tasted nice and sour. Anyway, I fed it as mentioned in the directions (as per Day 4), which I have been doing all along. I've noticed that it gets more bubbly when it's thicker in consistency, ie. I mix in a little less water than flour when feeding. It's been sitting on my kitchen counter, where the temperature stays pretty much at 70° to 73°, maybe a little higher, like 75°/76°, if I use the oven. I've not yet put the starter in the refrigerator.
Some questions -
At this point, should I be feeding it more than once per day?
Is it at a point where I can use it for baking?
How do I get it ready for use in baking?
Thanks in advance.
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So what does one do...
when, after 17 days, and following all the directions above (except adding the apple cider vinegar, I haven't done that yet), my starter has less bubbles than the Day 3 picture and has never risen? I'll probably add the vinegar tonight when I get home from work, but at this point I'm not really holding out much hope for any change. And to answer questions, before they're asked...
Yes, clean utensils and containers.
Plastic container. Plastic and/or wooden spoon and spatula.
Stable temperature, 70° to 73°, with an occassional short-term rise to around 75° when I use the oven.
Starter was started with whole wheat flour and pineapple juice.
Water used is bottled and basically distilled water.
I've had these same results when in CA. I'm now in NY.
I'm at a total loss and very frustrated that my starter isn't doing anything it's supposed to be doing. I'd hoped to be baking bread soon, but...I don't see that happening. What am I doing wrong?
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Re: So what does one do?
Personally, in that situation I would throw it away and start over. It took me three tries to get a good rye starter working; it was frustrating to throw the first two away (esp the 2nd one that was going OK and then molded) but that is what it took.
You might consider trying a different brand of (organic) flour.
sPh
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high ratio feed, refrigeration cycle
Sandaidh,
I'm not sure exactly what feeding schedule you have, but here's my way of working with a starter that won't take off but has some sluggish activity after 4-5 days.
Feed it 1:4:4 by weight of starter:flour:water. Let it ferment for about 12 hours at room temperature. Then, refrigerate it for 12 hours. Repeat this cycle until it starts to "take off". The same cycle can be used for a few more days after it becomes active. After a few days, you can refrigerate it after feeding it and letting it ferment for a few hours and it should keep for weeks.
If you have the time, I would suggest splitting the culture in two. Add acid (vinegar) to one, and not to the other. I've found that the acid can help, but often it delays the process yet a few days more, depending on the cause of the sluggishness. If you notice the culture is less active after the acid is added to the feeding, then stop the acid addition and just continue the feeding/refrigeration cycle.
Bill
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Sourdough International starters
I have wanted to get some of their starters from around the world, but wanted to know if their claim that the starters will persist as when purchased is true, or do they morph into what ever you would end up with if I started my own in my own little corner of the world? Another way of saying it is, will the San Francisco starter remain the SF starter for years/ever, or will it not?
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I tossed it
I tossed the first try, bought all new flour and started over. I also put it in a smaller container to make it easier to see any rising. And I'm happy to report that on Day 6 the starter had bubbles and froth, and smells faintly like beer. LOL So it's working. I also got my San Francisco sourdough starter (purchased from Sourdoughs International) going, so for the past few days I've been able to compare the two, side by side. The wild yeast isn't as...active as the San Francisco, but then the SF starter has been in a proofing box, where the wild hasn't. Am I correct in guessing that this may be part (most?) of the difference between the activity levels? At any rate, I'm looking forward to my first loaf of sourdough bread, which I began last night using the SF starter. It'll help me be patient while the wild starter gets going enough to begin using. Thanks for all your help. And SourdoLady, I think I may know you from another cooking forum I used to participate in a couple years ago. My name is the same in both.
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Hi, Sandaidh
Yes, I remember you from the other forum. I think I once sent you some dried starter, didn't I? Sounds like your wild yeast starter is going well. Just keep on feeding it for a few more days and it should be strong enough to make some bread. The proofing box does make a big difference. The warmth makes the yeast grow faster. How did the SF bread turn out?
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Yes, you did send some dried
Yes, you did send some dried starter. Unfortunately, due to circumstance both in, and beyond, my control, I had problems with it. No fault of yours, or the starter, at all. My bad. Putting the wild yeast starter in a smaller container has helped me to see what it's doing. In the other container, all the risings and such were going out (ie sideways) instead of up. Smaller container and they're going up now. Much easier to see.
The San Francisco bread was, in a word...wonderful. The flavor was exactly as I remember from so many years in the Bay area. I used the no-knead recipe, which fits very well around my crazy work schedule. It didn't rise as much as I'd have liked, but I think that has more to do with my inexperience working with sourdough than anything else. And the crust is a bit too hard. But when I first tried the no-knead recipe using commercial yeast, I had the same 'hard crust' problem. It took some fiddling with the cooking time to fix that. I'm guessing the same will apply with the sourdough. I'm looking forward to making more. Thanks for all your help.
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Hello, Can you tell me how
Hello,
Can you tell me how much this makes and how to grow it large enough to make two-cups of output every week or so?
Thank you
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Newbie Challenge?
I am a newbie on this forum. I've posted a few pics of the Challah's I've made with success, but have decided to jump right in and try your starter tonight and hope to use it in a recipe after it's ready. I thank you very much for your starter recipe. I hear it's a good one to use, soooo, wish me luck. :)
Luv4Country Soaps
http://www.luv4country.com/catalog
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Consistency of sourdough
A simple question: The consistency of the sourdough in the pictures is like that before you stir it or after? Before you added the daily feeding or after? Is just that I've been feeding my sourdough for 7 days and doesn't have that much bubbles on it (and I see the bubbles only when I stir it, sorry for the "simple" question).
With the 7th feeding (yesterday) I added 1/4 tsp of organic apple cider vinegar as suggested, but I don't know if my sourdough is behaving like is supposed to.
Oh, by the way, I've been feeding my sourdough with organic whole wheat flour...
Thanks for the help...
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mluciano, Sorry Qs didn't get answered
as quickly as they should have. I was just reading along and realized nobody answered your questions. That happens sometimes. I think the pictures were made before stirring and before adding the daily feeding. Stirring tends to pop bubbles. But they soon come back again. How did your starter come out? --Mini Oven
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Thanks, Mini Oven
I missed that post! Your answers are correct.
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Bread Bible-converting to stiff starter
With great advice from you all, I have now fed my starter for 14 days. In the middle i had to switch from rye to unbleached bread but it's still rising and falling. Since the recipes were for rye, I forgot my generalizing skills and decided I needed to find a recipe for white. I bought the Bread Bible and, OH NOOO it calls for stiff starter. Deciding to forgo the challenge of reviving my once above average math skills long hidden and probably disintegrated into brain dust, I just kept kneading in flour until the starter was a stiff dough.
My question is... now that I have JUST made stiff starter, can I act as if this is the first feeding of the starter as if beginning the bread recipe, (wait 8 hours or doubled and then do the second feeding, then put together the rest of ingredients for risings)) or do I have to feed this stiff starter for a day or 2 every 12 hours and then start the recipe?
In the meantime I have made the millet-sunflower seed bread in King Arthur's Whole Grain Baking book and it is fabulous; tastes like bread is already spread with nut butter!
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Re: Bread Bible-converting to stiff starter
I think you would be fine to count your newly stiffened starter as the first feed, as you described. I do not have the "Bread Bible" so I am not familiar with her recipes and techniques. I most often use a liquid starter but on occasion I have thickened it up and made it into a stiff one for specific recipes.
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A stiff starter ripens slower
due to less moisture, It might take longer to double than expected. When I mix mine very stiff, it takes 3 to 5 days to ripen before I use it. The point is: make sure it's ripe before you feed or refresh it. --Mini Oven
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mouldy-looking starter
Sourdolady, I am new to sourdough bread making.I am on day 3 of the starter.The starter has no bubbles and there is something white & mouldy looking on the top.But the starter is smelling yeasty..Should I throw the starter away?Should I keep it?Please suggest. Thankyou-Ruchir.
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Re: Mouldy-looking starter
No, don't dump it just yet. Scrape the moldy looking part off the top carefully. Do you live in a very warm climate? Stay with the pineapple juice and don't switch it out to water just yet. Stir it briskly several times a day, as this will discourage mold growth. See what it does in a couple more days. Good luck!
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Actually, I have the starter
Actually, I have the starter made from just wheat flour & water.I live in India, so I couldn't get the pineapples as they are not in season,& finding canned pineapples in Pune is not that easy.They are available in the malls.But the can is prohibittingly expensive(may sound strange to you!).As it is the rainy season, it is very hot and humid before the rains, and cold after it rains.It rains heavily every day.Then can I use the whey which comes with yoghurt after making it, or do I use diluted yoghurt?If so, how do I adjust the proportion of water? Thankyou-Ruchir.
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RUCHIR, Re: starter
I would not use the yoghurt in the starter, but it would be nice in the dough when you mix a batch--just use it in place of the water or milk called for.
I'm sure your climate is what is causing the mold. With all the rain you have there must be lots of mold spores in the atmosphere. If you can't get the juice, try adding 1/4 tsp of vinegar to the starter. This will acidify it and control the growth of mold. Are you getting any bubbles in it yet?
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