The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Flour Protein Content for Sweet dough

csimmo64's picture

Flour Protein Content for Sweet dough

Hi freshloafers

I'm currently using an all purpose flour with 11.5% protein content for a dough with this baker's percentage formula.

100% flour
47% Water
10% eggs
10% butter
10% Sugar
3% yeast
1.2% Salt

What would the ideal protein content for this type of dough be?

I seem to be having problems making cinnamon rolls with this dough. I mix it to an advanced mix, then throw in the butter and sugar in stages. Dough is completely developed. I then bulk ferment 41 degrees overnight. Then it is rolled to 1/4 inch thickness, layered with melted butter and mixture of brown sugar and cinnamon.

I bake these freestanding, IE not touching eachother's sides. When these are fully proofed and finished baking, the dough seems to collapse, leaving air in between each layer on the cinnamon roll. I think I should either be using higher protein content flour or bake a little on the darker side to get things set. Thanks!



BeekeeperJ's picture

You may be over proofing them if you find they collapse on themselves. try shorter rise time after the shaping. Maybe.

csimmo64's picture

they don't collapse on themselves. They rise and bake up fine, but as they cool off outside of the oven the layers separate and leave big gaps in the roll.

caraway's picture

I doubt the problem is with the flour.  Suggest you roll the dough out to about 1/2 inch.  Apply a thin layer of soft butter followed by the cinnamon and sugar sprinkled atop.  Then push on the topping with the flat of your hand to bond it to the dough before rolling up tightly. 

Just made some Saturday and YUM!

Happy baking!  Sue 

csimmo64's picture

why would rolling it thinly make it collapse? I do roll them quite tightly.

wally's picture

I make both brioche and croissant dough using King Arthur Sir Galahad, which is 11.7% - so about the same as yours - and haven't had any problems except when (with croissants) I don't laminate properly.  Are you allowing them to proof at all prior to bulk fermentation?


csimmo64's picture

Usually its taken right out of the mixer into an oiled bucket and into a fridge to cool down. I give it a fold to even out the temps after about 1-2 hours. I think my problem might be that I've underbaked them? I can't tell as theres so many things that might be it.  I want to make a cinnamon roll that will be fully cooked yet soft and moist on the inside. When I bake them fully, they tend to dry out faster and I can't remember if they still collapse. It's been awhile since I baked them that way. I'm running all sorts of tests myself this week, but just osme days it seems to happen and I'm stumped.


Also, one thing to note is that after the 41 degree bulk ferment overnight, I then come in the next day to shape them. If I proof and bake them that day, they tend to collapse more often than if I had shaped them all and left them in the cooler for another overnight proof, where they usually don't rise at all but a syrup collects below it from the sugar taking on moisture. I can't tell how this might help it

Chuck's picture

What would the ideal protein content for this type of dough be?

To try to answer your original direct question  ...even though the thread has now progressed forward to your real problem:

The type of recipe is most enlightening about the needed gluten content. A list of "ingredients" doesn't usually get you very far. Here's where "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Although getting the gluten content "just right" will probably be a way to tweak for optimal texture, the "wrong" gluten content is almost never a deal-breaker. If it needs to be higher, you may (not always) have problems with the dough tearing into holes when you try to stretch it. If it needs to be lower, you may (not always) have a problem with the finished loaf being "chewy".

Generally flours labelled "all purpose" are a good compromise - you can bake pretty much anything with them, and although the result may "not be the best it can be", it's pretty good.

pmccool's picture

Even allowing for the water contributed by the eggs and the butter (perhaps another 9 or 10%), this hydration for a sweet bread seems a bit low.  I don't know that it would contribute directly to the situation you describe but it may be worthwhile to bump the water up a few percentage points in future bakes to see if it makes any difference.

If caraway's suggestion of buttering the dough before adding the cinnamon and sugar doesn't change things, you could also try brushing the dough with lightly beaten egg white in place of the butter.  The egg whites can serve as a binder to hold the dough and the filling together.  One other thought is to use brown sugar, rather than white, in the cinnamon sugar mixture.  From my experience, it seems to hold together somewhat better, plus add flavor.


Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

layered with melted butter

makes for a slippery seal and the coils will separate, don't use butter or oil between the layers.  It can be drizzled on after the bake.

csimmo64's picture

To clarify a little bit:

I use melted butter, and also I use brown sugar/flour/cinnamon mixture in my filling. Its a ratio of 100%/10%/10%

I've made this dough and had it come out beautifully before, without the layers separating, and with it being great! But often times, it will collapse and I can't quite put my finger on it...


I just want to know why its collapsing.